PHRF

West Florida PHRF we rate* 135 for windward / leeward races and 132 for all others. This is the same rating that a J-30 or an S29.1 rate. Our fleet has 4 S29.1s and based on 6-years of racing against them, factoring in their crew's ability, I would say our rating is lower than it should be relative to the S2s. But this is only because we generally sail in light to medium air where the S2 excels. In heavy air our job is much easier. I could get a 9-second rating credit if I used the lapper only - I would totally do this if our races didn't have so much reaching.

There is a push in our area do move away from PHRF and go to something more objective.

Edited by khardy - 10 July 2013 at 9:51am

Someone must have, but I'm sure it would not be legal under some rule or another that governs keelboat racing.

Seawolf, ditch the 155%. That thing sheets outside the spreaders and clews at 11.5 degrees off center. Everything will outpoint you. We use a smaller #1 to get around that problem and we can point with anyone. I firmly believe the 155 has no place on a Laser 28. If you are racing 2-up, just use the lapper.

Here is a point of interest: I am always trying to make the point with crew as to how important it is to get the weight out on the rail. Recently I was sailing back from a race, and all the crew had taken a fairy back with the exception of one of my women crew members. We had the full main and lapper and were dancing along doing roughly 5.6, sailing between 28-30 off the wind which was reading 18 apparent. We were sitting on the rail with feet in. I asked her to take the helm and steer between 28 and 30 and see what was the top speed she could achieve within that band. She reported speeds of 5.54 to 5.62 max. I then went out to the rail, slid my butt out so as to be "cheeks to the teak", and hung over the lower lifeline like a piece of laundry. When I looked at her she had this huge smile on her face as we went through 6.5 hitting 6.64. I weigh 175 lbs. only.

People spend untold fortunes doing things to make their boats faster, but are to shy to insist that crew really hike out. I find that most crew, unless extremely dedicated to the cause, treat hiking casually. Oh yeah, we are sitting on the rail. However there is a huge difference between sitting on the rail and really getting out there to the max. If you were to scale the boat and place it 15 degrees off horizontal, on a piece of paper, then estimate the cg of a crew member who is casually sitting on the windward rail, you will find that he is just marginally sitting on the windward side of center. His weight, in fact, may only be about 1' to windward or something like that. Now draw him really hiking. His cg will be easily double the distance from the center of the keel. If that person weights 150 lbs, it is like replacing him with a 300 pounder. With this type of hiking, the boat lays flatter, and that in-turn puts that person's weight ever further outboard and makes it ever more useful. Now he is a 400 pounder. Now that you have a 400 pounder out there, the boat is moving one knot faster, and with that the keel is working 200% better and the boat is not loosing ground to leeward. Net, net, net the difference is humongous! In Martin 242 sailing here, the adage is that if a crew member cannot look down between his legs through his crotch and actually see water, then he is not doing his job. The windward rail is not a placed for people to sit while beating. It is the platform to offer minimum support at its outside extremity to support a very important member who is working hard to get his weight to contribute to the boat's performance. So, either get them to hike out, or hike home! Try my experiment on the water with your crew. Even if the main trimmer on a 6 man crew sits with his feet in, it will cost you .25 of a knot in 15 apparent. That's roughly 500 yards per hour! No PHRF points will help you if you do not go after that speed.

I am appreciating the feedback, lots of good information. One thought is to go to a smaller/lighter pole and spinnaker which means happier wife and higher PHRF (138). Another thought, just deal with it. We mostly been using a 155 (heavy) in 8 – 12 knots, then we drop to a lapper (105) if the wind promises to hold above 14 knots. Sea state is light with a little chop. Most of the time it is just the wife and I racing, not a top notch crew, so we have to depower earlier then most others. The Race Committee Chairperson is a good friend of mine who races his Frers 30. He rates 132. Just making sure he is not trying to get the upper hand ;) I also will race against a J100, J27, SC 30. Last week end we were scraping by in front of most of them, another reason why he is thinking of lowering our PHRF to 129. Some of you are rated at 123, so I should be happy he is not trying to lower us even more!

I agree with Warbird, whose old boat now lives directly next to mine on her trailer at West Van Yacht Club. By-the-way, she is one of the best examples of Lasers of that age that I have seen arrive here. PHRF reference numbers vary substantially from place to place. BC is about the worse because a committee, some years ago, decided that it would narrow the time-on-time numbers if they changed all base rating by adding 10% In that way, say a 135 rater would go up by 13 points, where a 110 rater would only go up by 11, so it tended to reduce the gap. What a mess! Today the basic Laser is rated at 150 with a code 5 spinnaker (almost no one uses one of those). The class kite is a code 9, so -12 for the class kite. However the class kite is not maximized under code 9........mine is, but doesn't meet class rules. Etc, etc, etc. Also, ratings are awarded based on a really well prepared yacht. Not one that has BBQ's hanging off the back, etc.

The best one can hope for, and take satisfaction from, is to have a set of numbers that group boats of similar speed and place them in the same division with other like-sailing boats. Yes, for most that may be the J-30, C&C 35z, etc. What is also nice to know, however, is that the Laser can be sailed down to much lower numbers with the right sails and rig tuning optimized to PHRF (very similar to class), and a crew that is really hot. Luc Gregoire reports being competitive to a number below 100. Voila recently did a race in which our elapsed time was better than all the boats in the division above us rating from 50-100 and included all the Melges 24's, etc. I was only a lowly driver that day, and another guru was calling the shots.

The idea of rating with a lapper as the largest sail has merit if one is not ghosting around and there are no waves.

However, as Bill points out, it will always be difficult to beat a really well drilled crew and a well prepared boat. The guru I refer to in a moment of frustration in that race that we so convincingly won, told me not to spend another dime on making the boat go faster, since so much time was available to be saved through better crew work, and he could count off the time lost to minutes and seconds at each operation that wasn't done really well. He wasn't very diplomatic about it! :-(

Here in Thunder Bay (where we use Lake Michigan PHRF) I'm at a 126.  To think the pros in Montreal are at 123 and I'm only a few points higher here... although I have heard that if I stick to the lapper and don't use a genoa I'd rate at 132 for LM PHRF.

We are 123 in Montreal. The boat has been modded by many people thinking they can do better than Bruce Farr but in all the races/regattas I've seen, the stock boat always wins against modded boats. I've seen some pretty extensive mods too like a lengthened spar with jumpers, much larger mainsail etc. However the stock boat was always a strong one-design racer who competes regularly against well sailed L28's. 

We are racing PHRF here on flathead lake, Montana, and I need defend my argument for my current PHRF rating of 138. US Sailing PHRF for the Laser 28, has us as a average of 138 or a 129 as one design racing. My question is; why would a ODR be rated lower than a non ODR? I would think if someone where to break away from the ODR rules it would be to make their boat faster? Also I would like to hear from those who are racing PHRF what their handicap is, currently we don't get penalize for the bigger headsail,