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headsail track usage

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    Posted: 03 August 2012 at 1:08pm
OK this is probably a total newbie question but I don't see a specific thread on this so maybe useful for other newbies as they arrive.

I'm wondering which cabin top tracks everyone uses for their headsails?  I've no idea if my tracks are factory or if some have been installed afterwards.  I have two on the deck aft of the shroud with one more to the inside than the other.  I also have one on the cabin top just above the window and another on the downward sloping part of the cabin top forward of the mast.

I've done some experimentation and found that when sailing close hauled under my genoa 155, switching to the innermost track on the deck gave us an immediate 0.5 knot speed increase.  However I've done no experimentation at all with other sails, especially the lapper.

I've attached a photo of my deck layout which hopefully uploads correctly.

If anyone has any lapper or genoa tips, please post :-)

Eclipse port cabin top
Chris
Eclipse #240
Thunder Bay, ON
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Bill Layton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2012 at 1:45pm
North sails are only cut for the upper track, whereas most other brands fit both tracks. Using the lower track keeps the slot open a little more while still being able to sheet the leech into the spreader.  I haven't used the upper tracks in 18 yrs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2012 at 10:37pm
where is this lower track you speak of? you lost me. js
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2012 at 8:55pm
Out sailing yesterday in 26 knot winds.  I was short crewed and not being too experienced on  the tiller decided to fly a storm jib instead of the lapper.  Anyway we used the forward jib track (the one forward of the shrouds) and for some reason the jib fairlead block kept flying off the track.  Clearly it was too much tension for the block to handle but it appears sturdy and the locking pin looks fine.  I've never seen this happen before on any boat I've sailed on. 

Am I doing something wrong or do I need new jib fairlead blocks?
Chris
Eclipse #240
Thunder Bay, ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2012 at 9:02pm
screw pins or spring pins?
i would guess someone set them into a screw-head 'hole' and not a real fair-lead hole. they should not pop loose. js
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2012 at 10:50pm
They're spring loaded pins.
Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frfletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2012 at 2:33am
Chris,
The track that your sheets are on in the photo should be good for your no.1. Secondly, don't blow out your lapper if blowing 26 knots. Those conditions are for the working jib which we refer to as the #4. On your forward track make sure your pin is really set in the hole. Sometimes crew slide them toward the hole and think it is in the hole when the car stops. However the pin may have just slid into a screw recess which won't hold the car. This is a common mistake with crew who are unfamiliar with the boat.

Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2012 at 8:13am
We are referencing the lower genoa track. His pic shows 2 lower deck tracks. The correct one is the silver inside track. 

Originally posted by fatjohnz fatjohnz wrote:

where is this lower track you speak of? you lost me. js
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2012 at 8:21am
That usually indicates that the holes in your track have worn and are now elongated. Not locking the car pin in tightly. I have seen this before. However the car should not be able to fly off the track. When the boat was built we put on a pan head bolt at the aft end of all the tracks, this was put there to prevent the car from flying off the track under load should the pin fail.

Originally posted by Winner Winner wrote:

Out sailing yesterday in 26 knot winds.  I was short crewed and not being too experienced on  the tiller decided to fly a storm jib instead of the lapper.  Anyway we used the forward jib track (the one forward of the shrouds) and for some reason the jib fairlead block kept flying off the track.  Clearly it was too much tension for the block to handle but it appears sturdy and the locking pin looks fine.  I've never seen this happen before on any boat I've sailed on.  
Am I doing something wrong or do I need new jib fairlead blocks?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Brock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2012 at 8:33am
Hi Guys,

A couple more thoughts. I added a deck track (inside the shroud next to the cabin wall in front of the window) for the No. 2 and 3 which appears to be working very well. I found that the forward cabin top track was too far inboard. To get this sorted out I used the barberhaulers to pull the clew of the smaller headsails outboard about 2" to 3". I found I increased my speed to weather to about 6.1/6.2 knots, but of course I could not point as high. That improved my VMG to the point where I could keep up with the heavier PHRF boats (like a J-30) that usually left me in the dust in higher winds using the cabin top track. As I am sure you know, you must have close to 1,000 lbs on rail to keep the boat upright in the higher winds. I moved the new track aft a few inches to make sure I could get the same sheeting angle. (sorry I don't know how to post a picture to this write-up)

Bill

P.S. When you order a sail you should always give the manufacturer the the distance abeam from the center line of boat to the center line of the track. Don't assume anything. They are not mind readers.
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2012 at 8:52am
Frank/Bill: yes indeed the inside track is better for the genoa.  I experimented with that a few weeks ago and using the inside track gave us an instant 0.5 kt speed increase!

Bill L: The pins don't look worn out to me but I'll inspect everything more closely.  Some of my tracks have guards at one end to prevent the block from sliding off but the forward one does not.  I assume this was for ease of block setting as I only have one set of fairleads for the whole boat.  I'm considering buying more but they're a bit pricey.  Having said that one of my crew told me that the block was actually flying off the front of the track, not the back which I find hard to believe but I can't verify this either way - I was too busy steering  ;-)

Frank: My sail inventory may need some tweaking.  I have the following:

1) 155% Neil Pryde genoa
2) 109% North sails lapper (2 of them almost identical size)
3) 103% North sails jib (same sail shape as above but smaller because luff is 40 inches less)
4) storm jib

So I'm not sure how this fits in terms of #1, #2, #3 and #4 as you described above Frank.

Bill B: Sadly, my boat does not appear to be rigged for barber haulers.  I'd appreciate any suggestions as to what I need to do for this.  I know the theory behind their use but have never actually used one before.
Chris
Eclipse #240
Thunder Bay, ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2012 at 9:05am
I would assume that you are not using a schaffer car on your schaffer tracks. Sometimes this can be a problem as the pin does not match the track well. The silver inboard lower track does not look like a schaeffer track, which would explain why the car works on that one but not for the lapper track

Barber haulers used  slide cars that mounted on the toe-rails and from there you could adjust the genoa sheet inboard / outboard positioning. However this only useable if you do point to point racing. Its not necessary for windward/leeward courses. Keep in mind the toe-rails are very fragile pieces of aluminum (.049 wall thickness) and cannot be loaded heavily. Many owners bent their toe-rails by overloading the barber haulers.


Edited by Bill Layton - 07 August 2012 at 9:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2012 at 9:39pm
OK so I checked and my fairlead block is made by Viadana.

http://www.sailormall.net/hardcote-anodised-aluminium-genoa-sheet-slide-max-rope-diam14-mm-code-viadana-2321-022197

So Bill I need to buy Schaffer fairlead block?  Any specific one you recommend?
Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2012 at 9:23am
I can't tell if your block is the problem or not without comparing it to original equipment we used. Below are the tracks and cars we used for the L28. Despite their current rating, I've never seen one fail. Schaefer equipment isn't cheap and they have a reputation that they last forever. 

This is the car we supplied that goes onto the toe-rail for the barber-haulers

This is the schaefer race track that was installed on all L28's (all original tracks were 1 foot long)

This is the schaefer genoa/lapper fairlead we supplied on all boats
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2012 at 4:37pm
Thanks Bill I'll do some checking as to what's on my boat now.
Chris
Eclipse #240
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seawolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2012 at 4:46pm

Great information here. My boat has the original tracks on the cabin top. However at some point in it's life it did have a track on the deck somewhere below the window. But for whatever reason, the owner took off the track.

 

The short track in front of the mast works good for the working jib, and I think I used the track aft of the mast for the lapper. Both cases I used the cabin winches.

 

I have been flying my 155 Genoas (came with 2 new north sails rated  0-14 knots and 10-25 knots) off the toe rail, so it has been working ok, and we don't fly the genoas above 14 knots anyway with just the two of us. Which case we switch to the lapper, followed by the working jib.

 

The short track in front of the mast works good for the working jib, and I think I used the track aft of the mast for the lapper.

 

I also have barber haulers, I thought these were tweekers for the spinnaker. I haven’t tried these out yet, but thanks to the posts I have some idea how to set up.

 

I am thinking that this winter I might install a track back on the deck and would like suggestions on where to place it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2012 at 5:02pm
The fwd track is for both working-Jib and the lapper. The aft upper track is for north genoas and the lower aft track is for all other makes of genoa. The pic above of Chris's boat #240 shows the correct location for the lower track (the silver track) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Waterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2015 at 11:23pm
So I'm having new non skid put on the boat...thinking of removing the upper tracks completely.  Is there any reason to keep them? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Waterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2015 at 11:27pm
By "keep them" I mean attached to the boat.  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2015 at 12:45am
It depends on what make genoa you use. North Genoas fit the upper track best. Evolution genoas can do both well.
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