Hull Joint Rub Rail

frfletch, what length of section did you purchase? and would you suggest a section with a more shallow depth so there is less impact due to the flange depth fluctuations? thx
p.s.
I'm not a huge fan of the 3M stuff, as you noted, really hard to clean. I'm hoping the lifebouy will be sufficent.

I just completed installation of a new rub rail on Voila 166 using the 2770 section from Wefco Rubber and thought someone may find the information and experience of interest.

The rail material cost was US$3.00 plus shipping and I ordered it in black. They do black, white and grey, but only run grey when they have orders whose grey color material requirements exceed 200 lbs, so for grey one must wait bit unless your timing is lucky. Wefco manufactured and shipped within a week of the order.

Prior to selection of the section, I pulled a bit of the old rub rail off to find that the flange at the hull/deck joint was about 11mm thick and protruded 24mm from the hull, so the 2770 section looked a perfect fit and for the most part it was. The original rail had an outside depth dimension of only 22mm and an inside dimension of about 18mm, leaving it sticking quite far from the hull. I discovered the reason for that after I pulled all of the old rub rail off, and that is that in the molding and assembling process there is quite a bit of variation both in the thickness of the rail and in the amount in protrudes from the hull. By using a shallower section, they did not have to fiddle with either the joint flange, nor the rub rail section and could just glue it on allowing the gap between the edge of the rub rail and the hull to vary a little. Using the sightly deeper 2770 section which has an internal depth measurement of 24mm, same as the flange for most of the hull, the fit is perfect, however where the flange sticks out further, the rail stands off the hull a bit defining that gap. That is easy to take care of by grinding a bit off those sections of the flange and bringing them down to 24mm. The more challenging bit comes when the flange is less than 24mm, say perhaps only 20mm in which case the inside end of the rail will not make contact with the flange, and for the most part, this is where the bond is taking place.

Ideally, for this one would build out those sections of rail a bit with some epoxy and medium density filler and then grind it to conform, which would be pretty easy with some wood slats and waxed paper, etc. For Voila, we were out of time. It was -6C here this morning and we are expecting snow tonight. So, I trimmed some width out of the rail in a few places using a Dremmel with the small barrel sanding attachment and where I could not quite make contact, I added extra sealant adhesive to those areas and also applied the sealant to the side rails to increase the bond.

Mitering the corners had been a concern to me, but I found a good way to do this. I first put the rail onto the boat starting in the center of the transom and pulled in around the entire hull, making sure it was well "clipped" onto the flange with the little teeth inside the rub rail section. I did my best to put an equal amount of tension on the rub rail as I snapped it in place which was limited and measured by the tension wanting to pull the ladder over if one applied too much pull to the tail bit. When the rail was all on the boat, I cut off the extra leaving a couple of inches spare. Then I went around and marked the center of all the corners to be mitered. There are two on the bow, and one at each corner in the back. After marking, I took the entire section in the house where it was warm and used my kitchen counter as a workbench. I placed some duct tape on the counter, overlapped to get the correct circumference of the rail section, drew a line down the center longitudinally, and then layed out the mitered cuts which I had measured with an angle gauge, but I can confirm that for the two corners forward the "V" cuts are 20mm from the edge of the rail x 30mm wide, and for the bow section they were 20mm x 20mm. I used a piece of 3/8" plywood about 6" wide by 10" long to mount the section I was mitering on, to hold the section stable for cutting. Then using one of those larger art cutters with a new section exposed for sharpness, and being very sure to hold the knife dead vertical, I cut the notches. Directly after cutting I pulled the miter to check for fit, and then glued the miter using a product called Miracle Glue and held until fast (about 20 seconds). It was useful that I purchased about an extra 10' of this material to practice with, and I think I will be cutting a slice out of about a 7' length of it to fit the wider top flange on the transom, which is what was done with the original rail at the factory. You will find that the original rail is wider on its top across the transom owing the the greater difference between the depth of the flange on the bottom and top in that area because of the transom angle.

I then transferred everything back out to the boat. Make sure that the starting cut is very clean and straight top accept gluing the ends together at the center of the transom. The final cut will be in situ and one of those is enough.

To not put any stress on the newly mitered joints, I never let them hang from the rail. I pre suspended the rail using light line and the lifelines and the toe rail cars to hold the rail up at the working level. Otherwise, the hanging weight of the tail of the rail would possibly open up the newly glued joints, plus it would pull down and pull newly mounted and sealed rail away from the hull. Supporting the entire rail with lines made it easy, particularly as I was working alone.

In order to get the inside teeth of the rail to open and get around the outside of the flange, I bent the rail out from the hull a bit while applying in a radius away from the boat which opened the mouth of the rail and allowed it to more easily fit over the flange.

I used a white colored 3M 4800, we'll see how it works, and applied it to the inside of the rail instead of the boat to contain the mess. I used the nozzle of the cartridge to spread it a bit to the outsides, but did not come past the outside teeth of the rail which would have made the process very messy. Particularly working with a white hull deck, bright blue sides, black rail, and white sealant. Keeping the nozzle body clean on the outside was important in not getting the white sealant all over the external portion of the black rail so every couple of applications, I wiped the nozzle body down with a small piece of paper towel and then discarded it.

For cleanup, the 4800 laughed at acetone, but yielded to a product called Goof Off, used for removing adhesive glues from masking, label removal etc.

When I got to the end, I cut the end to length and used the Miracle Glue to butt joint the rail together.

The final result looks very good indeed. With the weather being very cool, here, it will be a while before the sealant and fastness of the rail can be tested. I'm guessing that I may have to lift the flaps of the rail in a few places, but that will have to be at another time. All this work is being done in Whistler, BC, and there is no more weather for this sort of work.

I took pictures of the mitering process if anyone is interested.

Pic of original grey PVC rubrail and the new black rubber #2770 profile


Edited by Bill Layton - 14 October 2009 at 10:05am

great, are you going to use something like lifebouy caulk to seal the rub rail in place? are you going to crazy glue the miters or hold them in place w/ the caulk. curious cause i'm planning to do this in about a month. john

I have just ordered new rubrail in black EPDM rubber from Wefco Rubber in Canoga Park California. I chose section number 2770 which is a little deeper than the original and should cover the flange and come up to the hull. I expect it here in the next couple of days and will report on how it works out.

Bill, I've been looking at the very same rail on a J/80 docked beside us. It does look like a good alternative. I'm not sure how its attached though.

FYI, the alum rail on the L28 comes as a straight extrusion, but having a wall thickness of .049 its easily flexible. The 1/4x20 Hex Head bolts slide into the alum extrusion (we designed it this way) and the holes in the deck follow the curve on the deck.... underneath we used lock nuts. It'll all make sense once you disassemble one.

WJRyan wrote: I am in the midst of replacing the rub rails as well (port/starboard and the port Hunter34 smooshed 2 rails on my starboard side...) and I am going to have in my hands this week a plastic replacemetn cut to size. This is the type of rail used by the J Boats and comes in white, priced at $65 pre section with end caps included. As soon as my test strip arrives I will take a picture and post it. My problem with other alternatives was getting somethgin that would "curve" appropriately, this solution (so the guy assures me) is hard ABS-type plastic that flexes enough to follow curve of hull/deck. Main difference I can see is that they will need to be screwed in rather than bolted from below.

Edited by Bill Layton - 10 September 2009 at 10:17am

My apologies, Bill is absolutely correct. I guess my smooshed toe rails have "rubbed" me the wrong way! Sorry for confusing the posts althoughanyone with info on replacing toe rails I have 2 to replace and/or 6 to change completely - pics of info noted above will be posted as soon as I get them.

I am in the midst of replacing the rub rails as well (port/starboard and the port Hunter34 smooshed 2 rails on my starboard side...) and I am going to have in my hands this week a plastic replacemetn cut to size. This is the type of rail used by the J Boats and comes in white, priced at $65 pre section with end caps included. As soon as my test strip arrives I will take a picture and post it. My problem with other alternatives was getting somethgin that would "curve" appropriately, this solution (so the guy assures me) is hard ABS-type plastic that flexes enough to follow curve of hull/deck. Main difference I can see is that they will need to be screwed in rather than bolted from below.

I'm missing a 3' section of rubrail and I have been looking for a replacement for a while now. I was told the rub rail was custom made for the boat, so I really didn't look that hard for a replacement. I have decided to just make a new rubrail using a combination of EPR and PE. I work at a plastics company, so I have access to what I need to put something together. If it works out I'll let you know.

Thanks for the help regarding measurements for the flange in support of the rub rail search. For those of you who asked, my research takes me to www/wefcprubber.com who have a huge array of rub rail configurations and sizes for marine applications. If you download and print their section sizes, they come out in true size. Available in black or white with 2-3 weeks delivery time.

Frank

The joint flange is approximately 3/4 of an inch or 20 mm and the thickness is 1/2 inch or 12 mm.  Hope that this helps, and if you find a suitable rubrail. please let me know.