Reaching spinnakers

Rather than hijack the genoa vs lapper thread I thought I'd start a new one, anticipating a good debate on reaching spinnakers.

A good starting point  for reference is: http://www.ie.northsails.com/tabid/27006/Default.aspx

Earlier, fatjohnz stated, regarding his Code 0 which he attaches to the tack of the boat rather than a bowsprit:

"Its definitely a special purpose sail with specific attack angle. I mean if you try to sail too close to the wind, you lose the luff and if you sail too deep, the main will start to blanket.
When trimmed well, the apparent wind on the windex is a little forward of perpendicular. So its a reacher as advertised.
It covers the point of sail where you'd either have to ease a genoa to the point where its barely drawing or you're trying to hold a spinnaker with the pole all the way on the forestay. The code0 would eat that point of sail up."

It's worth noting that the code 0 seems to have a smaller wind range than a symmetrical code 1 (40-85 vs 60-120).

The North Sails rep has quoted me $2300 for a symmetrical Code 1S sail, so that's a pricey special purpose sail ; but under the right circumstances, I think this would do well.

Fatjohnz: Does your code 0 attach to the usual tack point on the bow and if so, I'm assuming you can tack it like a jib?  When using a Code 0 with a bowsprit, jibing is relatively straightforward but apparently tacking is quite a chore, because the forestay is in the way.  That's why Code 0's typically come with a built in furler.  Furl, tack/jibe, unfurl, voila!

I'm interested to hear people thoughts on different reaching spinnakers and the experiences they've had, either on Laser 28's or other boats.

I am new to the Laser. On my 35 I had a asymmetrical reaching kite. It was a great addition. It worked when the wind was 80 to 120 true. I won overall a LOSH race with a fleet of 90 well sailed boats. I find the symmetrical spinnaker would not pay on angles more than 120 true. It feels fast but you are sliding sideways.
Mike

Edited by Mike V - 22 July 2013 at 6:40am

As some of you will know, we've been using second hand SB20 (Laser SB3) asymmetric spinnakers on FarrOut for a couple of years. They're not ideal as they are built for a much lighter boat, so we have blown two to pieces in high winds but at £50-£100 each it's not so bad. The luff length is good at 10.6m and at 46m2 it's the correct amount of sail area. We have a small stainless sprit added.

In light airs we can take this kite up high and it can give advantages at 50 deg apparent wind. In big breeze they can be taken down deep and the crucial thing for the Laser 28 is that we can get weight off the foredeck in the gybe. Especially important in waves when we are all stacked at the transom.

Plus points: higher kite angles. Simpler, quicker, safer gybes. Downwind S2 kite used for dead down legs. Lot of fun (the young crew love big breeze ayso legs).

Minus points: can get caught with the wrong kite on and have to bare head change or sail angles. AP kite would be faster sometimes - you just have to know when that would have been. We use pole downhaul as tack line so would be less disruptive if we had a dedicated tack line.

I'm interested in the Code Zero discussion. Not a great deal of use in short course racing and I guess is better on a furler on a sprit so that it can be furled to tack. But as a boat that has got rid of the genoa I wonder how much more speed that you'd get over the genoa on a fetch. On a beat I think you're better off with the non-overlapping headsail. If it's really that light that the genoa is going to really help - Go Fishing! Code zero fills a too narrow slot between the headsail and the asymmetric for the expense for me (cheap campaign!) - but I remain to be convinced, it would be nice to have in the armoury for passage and offshore racing.

Cheers,

Jez

http://www.na.northsails.com/tabid/23017/Default.aspx

This is the link from North. It gives you all the wind angles for each type of spinnaker

A code Zero is illegal under PHRF. It does not fit their description of a genoa or a spinnaker.
PHRF-LO may allow the code 0 (zero) sail as a genoa or a spinnaker depending on the mid girth of the sail.

If the Mid Girth is less than 50% of the foot of the sail, it is a genoa and must be attached to the forestay as per the RRS. The lighter material in this case would make it like a drifter and would incur penalty/credits related to the LP%. If an LP of 170% is decided, it must be decided whether to carry it on the boat for the season along with the related penalty. It may not be declared on a light air day and then removed for the next race.

If the Mid Girth is greater than 75% of the foot of the sail, then it is a spinnaker and must be measured as per the assymmetrical guidelines in the manual. This would be a flying sail and would not be legal to use in an NFS division. All A-sails must be noted on the certificate.

If the Mid Girth is greater than 50% and less than 75% of the foot, then it is illegal according to PHRF-LO.


Edited by Mike V - 23 July 2013 at 1:09pm

In Montreal PHRF assigns us a rating code of "5U55S" for the L28. The breakdown of this as follows:

I see mention of both symetric and asymmetric spinnakers.  Do some of you sail L28s with an aspin? Does it tack to the bow or have you added a sprit?  If so, how long?
Thanks,
Silversailor

We use a standard S-1 Runner, maximized to code 9 PHRF. I have raised the hoist to the point where the steaming light was attached and ditched that stupid thing. Otherwise, the maximized kite fell below the pull-pit and was less effective, plus it blocked forward vision.

It is not uncommon that we experience off-wind legs where the spinnaker is adjusted anywhere and everywhere from perpendicular to resting on the forestay. In light airs we have carried that sail up to 45 apparent with good effect, but would not put it up in a 45 apparent prevailing situation. I would fear the use of an off-wind sail with a very narrow range of useful application. On the other hand, as Bill eluded to, point-to-point with a steady breeze blowing within the effective angles of a special purpose sail would allow that sail to be of an advantage.

Another point to consider that has aired in this thread, is the use of furling gear. We are sometimes coached by a world class sailor who objects to every piece of weight on the mast. His vote would be to strip the masthead of everything including the light, wind vane, instrument vane and anything else up there, and he would not sail without tapered halyards. One must keep in mind that our Lasers were designed to a ballast ratio based on a gross weight of 3,950 lbs. Guess what? As sailed our boats weigh about 4,650 lbs if you are really lean. We know the lead keel did not grow in weight, so that means we carry an additional 700 lbs above the water line before crew and their day bags…..all above the over-turning moment of the boat. With that in mind, sticking a furler on the front (worse place for weight) and running it up to 30'+ above the deck, or say 35' above the turning moment at the waterline, is just not a good idea unless the boat is set up to be cruising oriented. We have now added a 35 or 36' lever to muscle that extra 700 lbs. around depriving the boat from performance on all points of sail, but particularly upwind where about 75% of our race-time is spent.

In the end it comes down to "horses for courses". For us, we cannot make the case for an assy, but if I had one I would consider it for cruising as a couple.

This weekend we raced in Squamish. We did an inflow race (which is a run) with just myself and a 58 year old woman who had never been on a foredeck before. We lead until the take-down moment which we had to do in 30kts true doing 11+. With the tiller between my legs, the sheet in one hand and the tail of the halyard in the other, I instructed crew to grab hold of the sheet forward of the twigger, then when I called for it to trip the clutch on the halyard where I could feed the tail to enable her to take the kite into the companionway hatch. First issue: "What is a twigger"? Finally sorted that out and with one hand on the sheet, she did not have the power to trip the clutch under load. That's when we took the first take-down….not of the kite, but the boat. With that, she slipped below the lower lifeline into the water, but managed to clutch the lip on the opening of the hatch and hang on. We were near horizontal, she was in the water up to her waist, and I had already fired the guy, so things were not perfect. The boat would not come back up, however it almost did when the hand of God punched the boat down like a hydrolic ram and our competition (a J 30 passing us in the chaos) saw daylight under our entire keel. They said it was the first time they had every seen a keep completely horizontal with the mast in the water.

When the boat did come up, my crew woman (whom I had just met in the parking lot before we departed and had never sailed on the boat) said she felt like she was being catapulted up and only barely managed to hang on with those finger tips hooked onto the lip of the companionway where her paw marks I think are permanently etched into the kevlar. We once questioned if the mast could take the raised spinnaker hoist so high above the shrouds, but the rig has well proven herself to be capable of it.

A note to this story is that while our experience was the most spectacular, very few of the assy's got away unscathed and most took knock-downs somewhere in the same area.

All good fun!

Those that are flying asymmetrical spinnakers on a conventional pole, if anyone is, how/where are you attaching the tack block on the bow?  

Mine asym tacks to the jib ring on the bow. We don't use a pole. js