PHRF

Yes , seems wrong , I understand the ideal sheeting position is somewhere inside the window , obviously not an option.  I am probably overthinking , bit of a kid in a candy store as it is the boat I have wanted for many years . 

Yes Bill - it helps a lot . Stuck with the sails she came with till the budget recovers.   Guess I will still put the tracks on but won't have any use for them just yet .  Have to drill for tweakers and the cabin top cleats anyway plus fill the old barber hauler/tweaker cleat holes  .  I like the north stuff, however for this boat I think the evolution stuff is the way to go . 

Winner - Thanks again for the info . I sailed on a good friends Laser for a few years so I am reasonably familiar with where we sheet the 153 on his boat-  a little farther forward than you do , I assume it is a variation in the sail  cut . 

Edited by John Mills - 04 April 2016 at 5:47pm

Thanks Winner , just what I need , Bill sent me some too (thanks again)   Just curious do you ever get near the front of the track or generally center and do you have a 155, ?  When I order a new 1 I understand it will be bigger than my old one and some pics the track is even with the back of the window and some just a little farther back like yours 

Lapper sheets to the forward track on the cabin top (inside shrouds).  Genoa sheets to the aft tracks with the sheet outside the shrouds.  Many L28's have been fitted with an updated genoa track that is further inboard allowing for a better sheeting angle.  See:

Edited by Winner - 03 April 2016 at 6:03pm

Bill, I'm looking at a Laser 28 later this month that is for sale.  I believe it has it's original sails that I plan to replace.  Please send me a quote for the new sails that you recommend. I will be racing PHRF, not class. I saw the post for that carbon Doyle main.  Worth it? 
Thanks,
Alan

OK Fletch.  I understand the changes to the 155 you suggest. But, if I'm sailing strictly PHRF and buying all new sails, what else does everyone recommend? Lapper? Class main? Sspin or aspin? (Anyone add a sprit and sail with an aspin?)Fabric recommendations?
Thanks all.

Bill's is a good observation. This particularly applies in a ver short race. Last weekend in Squamish they did three races that lasted only 1/2 hour each max. A Martin 242 rating 168 is just not going to be beat in that amount of time. If you take it to the extreme, imagine a 5 minute race. You just get started, there are seconds only between boats, and then the race ends. When you apply the time corrected factor, the slower rated boat will win against anything. Race committees should be more sensitive to this, but then it just brings all this subjective material into it. So, as Bill has said: "At least they are out their sailing."

Okay. I was pretty sure of the answer you were going to give me, because I, and every other Laser owner has had the same problem. The problem is indeed that the spreaders are too long such that you can't really sheet the #1 in. Here is what we did, and it absolutely changed the way we sail the boat, and the boats performance in all winds from 0-18 apparent.

We re-cut our #1 doing the following, and changing it into a code 4, which saves us 3 points phrf. Essentially we did the following: We raised the tack 8" from the bottom, and tied a strop of dyneema onto the tack that attaches to the boat's stem fitting where the sail would normally attach. This left us with the same luff hoist, but reduced our measured luff length. Next we shortened the length of the foot bringing the clew forward about 8"and up about 7" so that the sail trims properly to its sheet track. Finally the leach was hollowed out slightly such that it trims in front of the spreader. It now hits the spreader quite hard when trimmed to 5 or 6" inside the spreader tip, but misses it by about 1-1.5" when just at the spreader tip.

We lost very little sail area to achieve these gains:
1. Three degrees pointing advantage on each tack.
2. More speed throughout the entire range. It super light air, we are sailing to a much higher angle so our apparent wind is higher, giving us more power with which to get more speed.
3. At the upper end of the range, say 18 apparent, where no Laser #1 previously sailed efficiently, the sail is trimmed tight in, which flattens and depowers it and letting it become more of a blade, so it does not back-wind the main allowing for the main to be trimmed fully in as well. She can sail very efficiently at 6.6 knots with 6 people in apparent wind up to 18.5. The boat will be on-her-feet and trucking. We sailed her recently up into this range with 5 on board, and still kept pace with 115 raters that can seriously point, such as Peterson 35's customized by Don Martin with deeper keels and higher rigs.
4. With the extra speed, and less boat angle owing to the flattening of the sail (made possible by sheeting in much further) the keel will work much, much better and the boat will suffer much less leeway which will result in a very much improved VMG.
5. The modified sail will be easier and faster to tack.
6. The boats that now give you trouble to windward will be well behind you. In up-down races this change, gave us 4 minutes an hour, plus the roughly 16 seconds per hour phrf benefit.

The issue is that almost any boat can carry more sail when beating than when fetching. When beating one can also feather by coming slightly higher in the puffs to de-power which can't be done when fetching. Essentially, using the full #1 on a Laser, everyone is actually fetching because the sail is "let out" to accommodate the spreader. When you let it out it becomes a bag and the draft moves aft which creates more heel on the boat and back-winds the main, hence the sail does not work at all beyond 14 apparent, and does not point in all wind ranges. All bad! Meet with your sail maker, cut your #1 down, and you will smile when you look over your transom or down and to leeward to watch the same guys who currently beat you fade further and further away. It is like owning an entire new boat. Best of all, the entire fleet will hate you! But you will love me for this tip! :-)

We have trouble with one S2 in winds from about 6-kts up to about 15. He out points us. Having sailed with them on that boat I can tell you it isn't because they are better sailors or because there boat is better maintained. (They are as good sailors as us, but not better and they don't take things as seriously as we do. For example, we hold off on the beer till the race is over.)

When it gets really light, we are usually faster. And once we switch to the lapper, we are usually faster. It's the medium air that hurts us. I assume it a combination of 1) a smallish keel 2) our wide sheeting angle on the genoa and 3) the S2's masthead rig.