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Engine Issue

Printed From: Laser 28 International Class Association
Category: Laser 28 General
Forum Name: Maintenance
Forum Description: All the things to care for your boat
URL: http://www.laser28.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=826
Printed Date: 15 August 2020 at 7:41am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Engine Issue
Posted By: Jamie
Subject: Engine Issue
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 8:51am
Hi Everyone,

I had an issue with my engine/saildrive over the weekend and I am looking for some insight.

I was motoring back to my mooring any the boat lost forward thrust.   The engine was on...had rpms etc.  but it just wasn't moving.

I got back to the mooring and dove down to take a look at the saildrive...I was thinking a big bunch of seaweed was caught between the saildrive and the keel or something.

When I dove down there was no seaweed.   The prop opened and closed easily...no issues.   The boat is going in and out of gear just fine...but no matter how much you increase the throttle (forward and backward) the boat barely moves.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks.



Replies:
Posted By: Ron Waterson
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 9:46am
Jamie,

Old Gori Prop?  They have a sacrificial part within that is intended to save the sail drive in the event of something suddenly prohibiting the prop from turning...aground...prop wrap.  I think they can also give out with time.  Yours could be 30+ years old and has simply failed from aging.  Mine reacted the same way as you describe after a mild prop wrap.  Non repairable to my knowledge.  New prop is the fix.  FYI - When I purchased my new prop, I was told the sacrificial part was no longer used in the replacement props.  

You may want to look at this post.

http://laser28.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=721&KW=&PID=3156&title=prop-problem#3156

  Ron


-------------
Hull 147 - Angel's Share


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 10:51am
Good call Ron, although all L28's rec'd the DV10 engine the props supplied originally with the engine were the DV8 Gori props even though Gori later on started supplying a DV10 prop with a slightly bigger pitch. Either prop works well. Here are the updated links

These are the two versions available from them


http://www.fawcettboat.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=8E2687BD3E2943EDB179134C03B9DF3B" rel="nofollow - Gori 2 Blade Folding Sail-Drive Propeller - DV8 Saildrive
SKU APR GOR2BFSD8

http://www.fawcettboat.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=DC605878A42D40DD8077D11FDF36C35F" rel="nofollow - Gori 2 Blade Folding Sail-Drive Propeller - DV10 Saildrive
SKU APR GOR2BFSD10






Posted By: Jamie
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 11:42am
Thanks Guys,

I am hoping to squeeze a few more weeks out of the season.  

So I guess a haul is going to be required.

Any idea the labor to replace this?  Is it just installed from under the boat when hauled?




Posted By: Jamie
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 11:44am
Also, would I have a LH or RH installation?

Thanks,
Jamie


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 1:04pm
The links show that both props are LH rotation... this is correct. Labor once boat is hauled is approx 30 min.


Posted By: Jamie
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 1:38pm
Thanks Bill,

One last engine question.   My engine does not shut off with any consistency.    There seems to be an issue with the key switch.

Do you know where I may find a replacement?

Thanks again.




Posted By: Ron Waterson
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 5:40pm
Jamie,

If you meant labor costs on the prop, it's really a pretty easy do it yourself job.  Have a zinc ready to replace old one while you have the prop off.  

  Ron  


-------------
Hull 147 - Angel's Share


Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 10 September 2019 at 10:24am
Jamie, Engine shutoff is driven by a solenoid that shuts off the fuel. You may have a faulty electrical connection. Check that you have proper voltage at the solenoid when the key is rotated to shutoff. Check that the solenoid fires properly when voltage is applied. John


Posted By: WJRyan
Date Posted: 26 September 2019 at 11:51am
Hi John and Jamie.  I just started having issues turning the engine on, if I move the key around it works.  So if I understand John you are suggesting the solenoid could be the culprit?  If so where and how do I measure this and is there a replacement?  Thanks!

-------------
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 26 September 2019 at 12:20pm
This is not a solenoid problem it's an ignition problem. Look behind the ign panel at the wiring to be sure all connectors are corrosion free and that each terminal is on tightly. If this doesn't fix it you'll need to repalce the ignition switch. Not hard to do.


Posted By: WJRyan
Date Posted: 26 September 2019 at 3:42pm
Thanks Bill, will go check the behind panel stuff this weekend.  If I need to replace is this something I can find locally?   Or do you have a magic link to share?  Smile

-------------
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 26 September 2019 at 4:15pm
http://www.lsm-diesel.dk/2012/bestil.php?lang=uk&txk=initshop&n0=4&n1=Partnr.&n2=Beskrivelse&n3=Pris%20ekskl.%20moms&n4=Antal

Best place to buy Bukh parts from.. they are in Denmark and charge approx. $50. for shipping

Also be sure of the obvious things... like loose battery terminals or where the batt cables bolt onto the engine. Be sure all connections are good.


Posted By: WJRyan
Date Posted: 26 September 2019 at 4:33pm
I did check the battery but not where is attaches to the engine, will check that as well as behind the key switch. 

When I checked the site you shared and searched for ignition switch these 4 came up:
Partno. Description/use partno.Price excl.
V.A.T
QuantityOrder
008E7599  IGNITION SWITCH(fTURNBUTTON) 1,550.93 < name="order4" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 8pt;" ="text" size="3" value="1" maxlenght="2">< name="OK" ="submit" value="OK">

Z002199-0  IGNITION SWITCH432.83 < name="order4" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 8pt;" ="text" size="3" value="1" maxlenght="2">< name="OK" ="submit" value="OK">

2179293-5  IGNITION SWITCH RED ASSY391.01 < name="order4" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 8pt;" ="text" size="3" value="1" maxlenght="2">< name="OK" ="submit" value="OK">

2180780-0  IGNITION SWITCH RED ASSY568.74 < name="order4" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 8pt;" ="text" size="3" value="1" maxlenght="2">

Am I searching fo rthe right thing here?  I think ignition switch and I see the part where the key goes in and turns - are these them?


-------------
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 26 September 2019 at 5:11pm
You need to use the correct part number first

in the parts manual it says it's 552K0006


Posted By: WJRyan
Date Posted: 26 September 2019 at 6:27pm
Yikes!!!
Price information & on-line order page
Partno. Description/use partno.Price excl.
V.A.T
QuantityOrder
R552K0006  KEYSWITCH 674.60 < name="order4" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 8pt;" ="text" size="3" value="1" maxlenght="2">



-------------
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 26 September 2019 at 6:43pm
Pricing quoted on a site in Denmark are  in DKK (Danish Krone) Exchange that into US dollars and it's roughly $98. US dollars. Otherwise remove the switch and take to some auto stores to see if they can replace it.

If you can find a part number on it or a name google it to see where else it might be sold.


Posted By: WJRyan
Date Posted: 01 October 2019 at 11:37am
So I checked and saw no corrosion and every connection was tight so I am guessing the switch might need to be replaced. Is there a schematic (or directions) on how to take it apart?  It's probably simple but my skill set isn't the best (Murphy has nothing on the Ryan's!)

-------------
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 01 October 2019 at 11:53am
This is a part that BUKH purchases so no diagrams are offered. If there is any identifying info on the switch perhaps you could google it and see what comes up. Or just take it apart and try to fix it. At the age of 35 I'd be inclined to replace it.

You didn't state what was happening when it didn't start. Other than moving the key made it work. Was the starter not cranking and then after wiggling the key the starter would crank? 


Posted By: WJRyan
Date Posted: 01 October 2019 at 12:04pm
It cranked but realllllllly slow like it wasn't going to start.  When I returned key to neutral position and jiggled it and turn on again then the normal sounds and start occurred.

-------------
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 01 October 2019 at 12:28pm
I assume the wiring from the ign panel to the engine looks normal? No swollen or half melted wires for example? If that's all normal I would replace the switch asap because it obviously has worn or compromised electrical contacts inside. It doesn't take much for a worn out ign switch to melt the wiring harness and light the boat on fire. In 1985 we had delivered a new L28 to a client in Florida and the ign switch was defective and caused the wiring harness to melt and the boat caught on fire and sank to the bottom of it's slip. It was a total write-off. The insurance concluded that was the cause of the fire. I've also seen a few owners need to replace the ign switch so this can and does happen.  


Posted By: WJRyan
Date Posted: 08 October 2019 at 12:30pm
Total confession & lesson learned.

Followed all the steps noted above and found good and tight connections, full continuity from point a to b to engine and beyond.  No build up anywhere, and to be sure I cleaned and wire brushed contacts everywhere.  Then a wise man (Allen to be accurate) asks me, what is the battery reading?  I measure and it say 12 1/2 V.  Then he asks, how's the water?  I respond.... water?  Never knew to check, all batteries in my past were sealed so the 3 yro battery was dry & toasted.

Lesson learned #1:  Check the water in your battery monthly.  Feel free to send me your email and I'll add you to me Outlook reminder!
Lesson learned #2: Allen suggested I put the trickle charger on a timer, said it wasn't a good idea to have it cooking all the time.

Results are a new battery and everything is working fine.   And I learned some new things!!




-------------
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155


Posted By: Jamie
Date Posted: 08 March 2020 at 9:48pm
Guys,

I am an engine luddite.

I am trying to order the stop solenoid at LSM Diesel.   

I believe this is the part # (612E0060).  Although the website calls it a "stop magnet".

Is a stop magnet a stop solenoid?

I tried to upload a screen shot from the website, but I can't figure out how to post an image that is local on my computer

Thanks.


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 08 March 2020 at 10:09pm
That is a European description and yes that's the part.


Posted By: Jamie
Date Posted: 22 April 2020 at 5:02pm
Hi Everyone,

Quick update on my engine shut off issues (engine is not shutting off consistently with the key).

I have checked the ignition/wiring and everything seems to be in working order.   So now I have to check the solenoid.   Someone mentioned to me that the distance of the "throw" in some solenoids can be adjusted.  Does anyone know if the Bukh solenoids can be adjusted?

It is not an easy component to get access to.   It looks like I have to remove the starter motor to get to it.  I see 2-3 bolts at the top of the starter motor that look like they are holding it in place.  Do I just need to remove those bolts to take the motor off?   

Also, do you guys take the wood bulkheads off when you work on your engines?  It would be easier if I could remove it but all of the plumbing for my head is mounted to it so it would be a pain to take it off.

A few other questions on other various items that I could use some help with:

1.  Last season was my first with the boat.  All summer I had no water in the bilge.  This spring after I took the cover off the boat I can see the bilge filling with water after each rain.  Is there a common source of water getting into the bilge that experienced people know about?  I cannot find the source.

2.  The inlet for the bilge pump in the cockpit is just a hose that is lying on the floor of the hull that ends at the head.   It is not attached to anything and there is no fitting/strainer on the end.   What should the bilge pump be attached to?  

FOR ANYONE LOOKING TO BUY A GORI PROP: 

I purchased a couple of parts from LSM over the winter and just for the heck of it I asked if they sold Gori props.   They did and I saved $400 on my new prop (including shipping).  It seems the distributors in the USA have no stock so they drop ship them from Gori.  

The best price in the US was $1,375 +$85 shipping.

LSM charged $850 + $180 shipping (a strong dollar helped).

Thanks in advance for your help.  It is much appreciated.





Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 22 April 2020 at 8:58pm
The solenoid is ‘on’ or ‘off’. You can touch a 12v line to the tab on the back to see if it fires. There is some adjustment in the solenoid mount; the solenoid is threaded. The nuts adjust the depth and you can remove it by removing the outer nut. When the solenoid fails I leave it in place and attach a loop of zip tie around the solenoid-tip/shutoff-lever and pull it with a string up to the cockpit thru the lazarette by the ignition panel. The solenoid at least pulls the lever back open.
I have detached things from those engine bulkheads so that they are easy to remove. On the fuel tank side I have cut reliefs in the bulkheads so they can lift out with the hoses in place.
Water comes from mysterious places after she is on the hard for the winter. Dry the bilge and then keep an eye on where the water is coming from. If you can’t find the source then it’s not that bad.
The cockpit pump is a high volume pump. I use mine for emergencies; test it. I have a hose long enough to reach thru the head to the bilge so I can keep the batteries above water when we’re flooding ;- )


Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 22 April 2020 at 9:55pm
fatjohnz comments are bang on... the starboard engine panel is removable by just removing the screws you see... very fast and simple... not like the port panel. This Stb panel needs to be removed to access the adjustment for the solenoid. Or to test it and observe it properly. (it's under the the bottom of the starter motor.) The windows leak like crazy since the boat was new... it's there you will find the leaks. Nice info on the prop! Thanks. The black wire that powers the solenoid will have 12v showing when the key is turned to off position. Check this first. This wire should be fused with a 10 amp fuse... or it can burn out the solenoid if left in off position. It did not come fused... something that should be added.


Posted By: Ron Waterson
Date Posted: 23 April 2020 at 5:49pm
Leaks - Check for aging scupper hoses.

-------------
Hull 147 - Angel's Share



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