Bukh DV-8 vs DV-10
Printed From: Laser 28 International Class Association
Category: Laser 28 General
Forum Name: Sailing
Forum Description: Everything on sailing the boat
URL: http://www.laser28.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=761
Printed Date: 22 November 2024 at 4:55pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bukh DV-8 vs DV-10
Posted By: khardy
Subject: Bukh DV-8 vs DV-10
Date Posted: 23 March 2017 at 9:58am
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Does anybody know the difference between the DV-8 and a DV-10? I've purchased a DV-8 in the UK and I'm going to have it refurbished before shipping it to the US and installing it. It is replacing a DV-10. |
Replies:
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 23 March 2017 at 10:40am
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I presume that the DV-10 is just a larger cylinder bore and piston. The DV-8 in my Laser had a head failure and I replaced it with a DV-10. Everything seems interchangeable. The DV-10 seems to have a little more kick and is able to push the boat to speed at a slightly lower RPM... or I could be imagining things... or my DV-8 was just giving up the ghost and had to work harder. John |
Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 23 March 2017 at 12:54pm
| It's the same engine exactly. The only difference is that there is an essentric fuel flow adjustment screw that controls the amount of fuel the fuel injection pump receives. All DV8's and DV10's installed in Laser 28's were adjusted to 10 HP at the BUKH factory in Denmark. The reason for this was, back in the day when this engine was designed europe had a rule that stated marine engines 8hp or less didn't have to pay a special tax. When that rule was rescinded they turned it up to 10hp and put on a prop with a little more pitch. |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 23 March 2017 at 1:24pm
| Wow, that's interesting Bill. |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 24 March 2017 at 9:16am
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Hi , Trying this post again. Anyone happen to have a fuel bolt for the injector end of the fuel feed line? Thanks, John |
Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 24 March 2017 at 9:26am
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Thats a pretty rare part... either Keith Strutt or Bukh would have it. Or possibly a CAV shop who rebuilds injection pumps and injectors. It's a rather specialized part since it has a bleed screw on it as well.
Also this place as well may have it: http://www.lsm-diesel.dk/
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Posted By: John Mills
Date Posted: 27 March 2017 at 6:28pm
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How did you loose that ? ------------- Unplugged # 164 NOTL |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 27 March 2017 at 9:39pm
| It all started when the head failed; and then .... |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 28 March 2017 at 9:24am
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The longer story is that my head failed and I took it to a local machine shop. After cleaning they found that the water jacket wall had thinned due to salt water corrosion and was compromised to leak into the exhaust port. Another local shop also told me that it could not be repaired. Then I began my search for a salvage head or a salvage engine. Very hard to locate. Eventually I found an engine and swapped them out. In the mean time, Kieth from Crinmar had me send him the failed head. Lo and behold, a shop in Canada was able to repair the head. So as I put the repaired head back on the original engine, I find that some parts didn't survive all the change of hands. This past weekend, the motor was used for a diesel motor class at a Women's Conference held by our sailing club. I will order that banjo bolt though ($2.50 plus $40 shipping from Denmark). I would like to hear that repaired motor run again. John |
Posted By: John Mills
Date Posted: 06 April 2017 at 5:37pm
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Glad to hear the old engine lives to fight another day . Never understood why Bukh or anyone had a raw water cooled engine given most are in salt water . We are fresh water here lucky for us . ------------- Unplugged # 164 NOTL |
Posted By: frfletch
Date Posted: 19 April 2017 at 3:26pm
| The engine was set up for raw water because its was designed for life-saving boats that launch from a ship in the case of having to abandon the ship. As such, they did not anticipate a lot of use for them. I have converted two of our Bukh's to cooling using a heat exchanger (avoiding sea water cooling) and that works just fine, despite that the workshop manual says it cannot be done. It can. |
Posted By: khardy
Date Posted: 09 October 2017 at 1:43pm
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Back to the original topic. I have the DV8 which is to replace my old DV10. Bill says above that the difference is just a fuel setting. Can I adjust that setting to make my engine a DV10? I have a DV8 workshop manual which provides instructions on how to do it "if the factory testing bench is not avilable". But the manual only provides settings for the DV8. |
Posted By: frfletch
Date Posted: 09 October 2017 at 2:05pm
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The DV8 and the DV10 are the exact same engine. Basically we have a 10 hp engine, however back in the day there were different taxation points when importing engines into North America, so they renamed the engine a DV8 to avoid the problem. Same engine, different numerical designation. A workshop manual with either name on it will look exactly the same and all parts are the same. There are minor differences between engines made to drive a straight prop shaft and those that are attached to a sail drive because one is mounted horizontally and the other is mounted vertically for the sail drive. l Ours is more of a diesel outboard mounted inboard. To accommodate the different orientation the treatment of crankcase oil circulation, draining and filling of the oil is configured to suit. |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 09 October 2017 at 2:27pm
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Hi, Bill stated in his March 22 post, "All DV8's and DV10's installed in Laser 28's were adjusted to 10 HP at the BUKH factory..." I assume from your question that the DV8 in question was not from a Laser? Just checking, john |
Posted By: khardy
Date Posted: 09 October 2017 at 3:00pm
| That is correct. Not sure what it came out of. |
Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 09 October 2017 at 5:05pm
| Get me the serial # and I may be able to tell you what it was adjusted for. |
Posted By: khardy
Date Posted: 10 October 2017 at 6:32am
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I will try to get the S/N, but the sticker was painted over. A related question - I've heard of some people running acid through their cooling system to remove scale and corrosion. I've used muriatic acid to clean a heat exchanger of and old Perkins. Has anybody ever done this on thier Bukh? |
Posted By: frfletch
Date Posted: 10 October 2017 at 8:29am
| Are you operating in salt water? If so I higher recommend installing a heat exchanger I have heard of people flushing with diluted acid lr vinegar this may clean up the thermostat but I don't think it it will resolve rust. You could try it on some other rusty piece of dteel in a bucket OT glsss container. |
Posted By: khardy
Date Posted: 10 October 2017 at 9:30am
| Saltwater. I'm exploring the heat exchanger idea. You added this to your engine? What model / brand heat exchanger did you use? I'm looking into a double pocket pump to replace the Johnson raw water pump the engine came with. Johnson used to make one. Sherwood still makes double pocket pumps. |
Posted By: frfletch
Date Posted: 10 October 2017 at 9:55pm
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I had the heat exchanger built by San Juan engineering in Bellingham, WA. I have done two conversions and the last one they charged me about US$380 for it. I kept the original Johnsen Pump to circulate the sea water and on the first project, Voila,I purchased an Oberdorfer centrifugal pump to circulate the anti-freee coolant. On the 2nd project for Warbird, I used a Johnsen impeller pump that had the same impeller as the original on the Buhk. These were both pedestal-type pumps mounted onto a bracket I cut from 3 x 3 x 3/16" aluminum angle bolted to the port side of the engine where one will conveniently find about 6 female bosses with 8mm threads that work perfect for mounting the bracket. The pump its bolted to the bracket by two 8mm bolts. The newly added pump is driven by a small belt from a pulley I attached to the top of the flywheel. Just remove the flywheel nut, stick the pulley on, and tighten the nut. I machined that myself so that the flywheel nut sat down inside the pulley hub with sufficient space to get a socket onto the flywheel nut. I then machined a standard pulley to fit onto the new pumps. On the first conversion I used an A section belt, but I found an L section for Warbird's conversion that is such smaller and runs much smoother. These pumps draw about 1/32hp, so one does not need much. I have been running mine since about 2010 with zero issues and I'm comfortable to know that my engine is not being slowly eaten away, particularly he cast iron head. BTW, both secondary pumps were found on Ebay,new for about $35.00, belt is about $5.00, so it is a cheap conversion. I think photos of it are still on the forum somewhere if you look back into the history. |
Posted By: frfletch
Date Posted: 10 October 2017 at 9:58pm
| BTW, I still have the shop drawings for the heat exchanger if you decide to go that way. |
Posted By: tonyt
Date Posted: 16 October 2017 at 12:49pm
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Hi Frank I am going to convert my Laser to FW cooling this winter and was looking at this kit for the Atomic 4 which looks pretty adaptable. http://www.atomic4.com/fwcelect.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.atomic4.com/fwcelect.html I would like to see the shop drawing of your heat exchanger though if you don.t mind emailing it to me. mailto:tony@eyemarine.com" rel="nofollow - tony@eyemarine.com I might just make one. ------------- Apres Ski LAser28 162 |
Posted By: frfletch
Date Posted: 16 October 2017 at 12:51pm
| Ok. Will send it to you later today when I'm home. |
Posted By: khardy
Date Posted: 17 October 2017 at 9:20am
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Interesting kit you found there. I'm considering an FW conversion too but I was hoping to find an equivalent to this: http://www.pumpvendor.com/Johnson_10-24143-1.html. That pump is discontinued but if it were available it would fit in the same 'receiver' as the Johnson pump the Bukh is supposed to have. I was hoping to find a Sherwood 'or equal' but I haven't had time to research since last week. |
Posted By: tonyt
Date Posted: 17 October 2017 at 11:35am
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I replaced my SW pump last year and saw that double pocket pump on a website, I was worried about two things, I did not think it would fit because the height is very restricted below the flywheel and the second thing was that the rubber impeller pumps are not really designed for hot coolant. I know they work ok but that might be because our thermostats are set quite low due to the sea water circulation. I am not exactly fond of the electric option but they are designed for hot coolant and are centrifugal pumps which are pretty reliable. The manufacturer of the pump is Johnson and they claim 5000 hours of life for the electric pump. The Bosch pump is even longer but more expensive. ------------- Apres Ski LAser28 162 |
Posted By: frfletch
Date Posted: 17 October 2017 at 1:01pm
| Warbirds has been circulating warm anti freeze for about five years on the same rubber or nitrile impelle. That coolant does not reach the same temperature as the head. howevervthe Orbedorfer centrifugal is very reliable as well. To anyone doing this the idea of a double Johnson pump that mounts on the standard mount sounds slick. I can't imagine that it comes up as high as the flywheel. |
Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 17 October 2017 at 1:08pm
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The double pump does fit our engines. I removed one from a friends boat and returned the engine back to raw water cooling because it'll stay in fresh water. The only downside to an electric pump is you can't run your engine if your batterie(s) are dead. Whereas the standard engine configuration will pull start and run all day and charge up your dead batteries.
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Posted By: John Mills
Date Posted: 17 October 2017 at 7:22pm
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Dang - if I had known I would have put that on when I replaced my pump this summer . I don't like the raw water in the engine even though I am fresh water ------------- Unplugged # 164 NOTL |
Posted By: Louis Farmer
Date Posted: 17 October 2017 at 11:11pm
I have the parts you need!  I purchased my boat in fall 2014, in dire need of TLC. I took out the engine to do a full overhaul after finding out the head wasn't cracked when we saw water in the oil just to make sure I'd be safe for a while and feel confident about the engine on long trips. With Bill's help, we returned it to freshwater cooling and put everything back to normal. Here's a gallery of the images from the overhaul and a today picture of the pump, i just turned it over and it seems to work just like when it was on the engine. I'm now on a johnson single pump running fresh water through the engine. There's also pictures of the heat exchanger on it's bracket, I unfortunately didn't find it in my garage for an updated picture like the pump, but I suspect it's at my dad,s garage :) There's also a 12V diesel low pressure pump in case you're interested, unrelated to cooling. http://imgur.com/a/kupor" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/a/kupor You can email me at mr.louisfarmer@gmail.com to talk about the parts and if you want to buy them Louis
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Posted By: John Mills
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 4:10pm
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Neat , however I just put a brand new pump on , not worth switching as fresh water boat . Would have bought the dual at that time though . ------------- Unplugged # 164 NOTL |
Posted By: tonyt
Date Posted: 19 October 2017 at 8:37am
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Good to see that double pump fits, I also just replaced my leaky pump this year with a new Johnson pump so I don't want to buy another although I really like the idea of not having to deal with an electric pump. I agree with Frank, the rubber impeller pumps will work OK for antifreeze if it is not too hot. They are easy to change the impellers if they get worn out anyway. I wonder if that top pump is stackable with the existing new ball bearing pumps that replaced the original since I could then use my new pump. ------------- Apres Ski LAser28 162 |
Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 19 October 2017 at 9:06am
| That pump looks stack-able but I wonder if it's 2 shafts or one long one. The base of that pump also looks like it's the one with a bearing instead of the bushing design the older pumps use. But in order to change impellers I would have to assume they would be separate shafts. |
Posted By: Bobs
Date Posted: 23 June 2020 at 3:08am
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My 1985 Bukh DV8 was down on compression. I took the cylinder head off, found both valves were bad, sent the head to a machine shop. They ground through the wall. I need a new, used, or rebuilt head! Can anyone help. The new Bukh dealer in Sidney BC could not help. We do not have many boats with Bukhs on the West coast. Thanks Bob
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Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 23 June 2020 at 8:35am
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That's too bad Bob. Bukh heads are rare. Do you have the failed head? There was a machine shop in Canada that had some skill in reconditioning failed heads although I was told success was 50/50. It would take some detective work to find out if they still exist. You can also scour the web of Europe although language can be tricky. Like this https://www.kkemotorer.dk/topstykke-ventiler-knastaksel/2922-solgt-topstykke-dv-8-10l-brugt-used.html john |
Posted By: frfletch
Date Posted: 23 June 2020 at 9:12am
| I would not give up on your head. We have had a few rebuilt by Lordco Auto Parts in Canada who do a wonderful job of reinstating the cast iron with a sstitching method of welding cast iron. On completion the repair is perfectly true and undetectable by the eye. I previously had one done by brazing in bronze, but it is nothing compared to the work that Lordco does. I can find out, but I think the cost was about CAD$500. The last one we did was organized by Lordco in Squamish, British Columbia that is situated about half way between where we live in Whistler, and the West Vancouver Yacht Club, so we have to drive through Squamish to get to our boat. Can you send me some photos of the head and the damaged area? |
Posted By: Bobs
Date Posted: 24 June 2020 at 3:44am
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frfletch, Thanks for your reply. You give me some hope. By the way, I spent a lot of my youth in Gibsons. How can I get the pictures to you. Bob rjswangard@comcast.net
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Posted By: Bobs
Date Posted: 11 July 2020 at 6:24pm
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frfletch, I contacted Lordco in Vancouver. They referred me to their machine shop in Mission. They said that they did not have a place in Squamish. I talked to Guy who said that they had done similar repairs in the past, he asked for picture. The pictures were sent 10 days ago, no word yet. I have contacted 10 Bukh dealers and others around the world looking for a used/rebuilt head, no luck! I am very worried that I am going to be SOL. Is there a Yanmar, Beta, or other engine that could fit of the sail-drive. Please get back to me if you can. Bill if you have some advice please pipe up. Thank you Bob
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Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 13 July 2020 at 7:46am
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Are you sure the shop got your pics Bob? Some email accounts can't handle that much data. BTW - Bill has been ill. js |
Posted By: WJRyan
Date Posted: 13 July 2020 at 8:43am
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Oh no on Bill, anything we can do? Cards? Bad jokes to lift the spirits? ------------- Bill Ryan, Room4Crew, #155 |