What the winners use??
Printed From: Laser 28 International Class Association
Category: Laser 28 General
Forum Name: Sailing
Forum Description: Everything on sailing the boat
URL: http://www.laser28.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=282
Printed Date: 27 April 2024 at 4:29am
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Topic: What the winners use??
Posted By: WarBird
Subject: What the winners use??
Date Posted: 02 November 2008 at 8:55am
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Did we see in Sailing Anarchy a regatta with 19 Laser 28s in Canada. Lets hear from the fleet and the leaders a word or two about their set-up, trimming and maybe some tactics. We in the hinterlands racing PHRF or small fleets have little against which to gauge our performance. If we have upwind speed against a J80 is that good or just expected. Are T-10s an even match to us or should we smoke 'em While we do well against some boats in some conditions, can we do better? Who has a jib cunningham, do you use it? Do you use inhaulers or outhauler regularly?? When if ever do you use cabin top tracks?? While we try to get better and better, some tips from the leaders would help. Let's hear from Cloud 9, Still Crazy, Rampant and others. |
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11 November 2008 at 9:33pm
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Eclipse, surely renamed, has joined that fleet. Best of luck to the new skipper and her crew. Warbird, I hear setting the kite sideways is always fast.... |
Posted By: WarBird
Date Posted: 19 December 2008 at 10:50am
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WarBird posted this inquiry 5 weeks ago and there has been virtually NO response. Is the fleet secretive or do the majority not look at this sight? Sideways spinnacker??? Pics or it didn't happen (2 or 3 times!) |
Posted By: Bill Layton
Date Posted: 20 December 2008 at 6:55pm
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Ok here is the site for Laser28 in Magog Quebec. Lots of boats there now but not a trmendous amout of racing. http://cvrm.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=148&Itemid=31">http://cvrm.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=148&Itemid=31 The Canadian championships were held there this year. Interestingly Quantum Sails got 1st & 2nd places and the rest were a mix of Q, hood, north, and doyle. cheers |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 10 January 2009 at 11:05am
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Hi Warbird, I'd be glad to answer any questions you have! :) To answer some of your questions. Who has a jib cunningham, do you use it? - We don't have one. Halyard tension is what we use. Do you use inhaulers or outhauler regularly?? - We don't use any. When if ever do you use cabin top tracks?? - Our forward sail is cut to use the lower track so we never use the cabin ones. While we try to get better and better, some tips from the leaders would help. - You can also contact me on hotmail and use this forum id. (don't want the bots to pick up my email) We use Quantum sails, in our opininon, the fastest sails for this boat at the moment. We love the Fusion M. I think it's the best Genois ever made for the Laser 28. We got them from Bill Layton and Denise Bienvenu (made in the Toronto loft). Cheers, ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 10 January 2009 at 11:49am
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Here are a few pictures from Magog. http://www.estrieplus.com/album-131-3-0-.html ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: WarBird
Date Posted: 13 January 2009 at 3:27pm
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Luc Gregoire asked some questions and this was my reply plus some narrative, We use North Sails, 1 new one each year NorthSails owner is a local. Mast rake is Headstay=32' 8-8 1/2" (more on that later) Uppers 1060-1280, Lowers620-740. 4 Laser 28s (not 8 Luc) in our Club, Eclipse just went to Canada(we apologize for the full holding tank!) We use a little more rake than recommended. When we had 3-5 laser28s racing regularly we seemed to have a slight edge going upwind. That could have been trim, weight placement or driving. As fewer Laser28s race now we concentrate on the phrf fleet more. We have speed with the J80 (155%headsail) and the B25, my old boat. On distance races we often correct ahead of C&C115 and C&C120 and finally corrected ahead of a well sailed Hobie 33 this year. In heavy air we ease the lowers 2 full turns to get more mast lower mast bend. The main is a paneled Kevlar(don't say it) film sail with a flat cut. If we have a downwind distance race we leave the Dacron main bent on. We use the deck tracks for the genoa. Going upwind the genoa is trimmed 1-3" outside of the spreqder with no hook to windward of the leech. I find boatspeed with all the genoa telltale flying back, inside just starting to float, then lose 2-3 tenth knot pinching. "Veloce" a Laser 28 dealer from the 80's taught us that trick. He cleans up in a large Milwaukee phrf fleet. Down a little for power in slop or chop but never below tale flying heading. I play the main for top batten telltale flying 80% and batten parallel to or a little open from centerline. Hooking the batten end to windward hasn't seemed to help speed at all. Main twist is adjusted for best boat speed thruogh the water. In bouy races we do very little micro adjust (gear change) unless conditions change alot. Jib lead may move tack to tack. I feel it is more important to get the weight where you need it and the boat settled in than having crew moving arround unless the adjustment is right at hand. Halyard or outhaul adjustments should be done on an unloaded sail or you will stretch or damage the head or clew. That is why my first post mentioned jib cunninghams, release befor the tack, trim after the speed build. We sail the boat fairly flat and I will ease big on the main and use only the leech to drive the boat when we get over powered. Down wind we fly the pole lower than the clew to project more sail in deep running. We keep the top batten paralel to the boom and slightly over trim the main when needed to keep the spin leech slot open for air flow. WarBird crew include 5 of us who have been racing together for 9-10 years first on the aforementioned B25 , now on Laser28. The crew is wonderful at helping with prep and paint, maintenance and repair, hauling and launching (cocktails to follow). One crew is always ready to swim the boat(clean the bottom) with or without me for every weekend event. We develop prospect regularly and have a pool of 4 miore experienced crew todraw from. None of us are "Rock Stars" but we race together well and have fun doing it. Each year we race 18-20 Weds Nites, 4-5 distance and 4-5 bouy series. we took our club "Offshore Series Trophy" this year and lots of 1st Place mugs over the years. We think we are fairly well dialed in but we don't have the onedesign feedback that would help us improve. Thanks for your input. WarBird
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Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 13 January 2009 at 9:17pm
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Hi WarBird, It looks like you're doing just fine with the boat! I've seen Laser 28's sailed quite differently but with equivalent speed. Most things you do seem good to me, here are some differences I'm noticing. We sail with 6 but are still under Class legal weight limit. Having the weight helps. Our rake is 32' 6 3/4 (from center pin at the bottom of the headstay to center pin at the top). So we have a small difference there. We use around 1050 pounds on the outters and what ever is needed on the inners to get us the mainsail depth we like. It's usually about 750 pounds. We set it for the sails and don't change it for different conditions. We do about the same on the headsail trim, 1-2" is what we often aim for. On the mainsail, I'd say we do quite differently. It might be due to the wave factor in your area. We usually sail in fairly small waves, so "flat water" sailing. We close the leech much more, the top batten will never be below centerline unless it's really blowing out there. We pull the main sheet in pretty hard and the top batten is to winward of centerline by quite a bit most of the time, the top telltale will fly about 30%-40% of the time. This increases pointing ability and doesn't hurt the speed. If we do lack speed we'll ease it a bit. Also, you haven't mentionned the backstay. When sailing upwind, we play with the backstay a lot. This is the power control of the boat because it has two main effects, when you increase tension: 1- It bends the mast thus flattening the main to depowerer it, 2- The increased tension on the rig reduces headstay sag thus depowering the head sail. We try to sail the boat as flat as possible, so when sailing upwind, we play the traveller a lot. We play the backstay if the wind speed changes to control overall power. Note that backstay changes require to you to modify the sheet pressure of the main to re-establish proper twist. Here are some pictures Magog 2006 Cheers, ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 15 February 2009 at 10:41pm
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Really great info. Let me just ask because I could not tell from the photo's.... Do you play the lapper tension (ease sheet or haul clew outboard of the cabin top lead) so that you can keep the main just-off center, OR Do you keep the lapper hard to the cabin top and primarily play the main ? My basic question is whether you play the lapper or play it. thx, john ------------- the freak flag is flying |
Posted By: WarBird
Date Posted: 21 February 2009 at 1:02pm
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Luc Thanks for all the info. Yes we generally have chop to power through but I will try this year to get more windward curl to the upper batten if it doesn't mess up boat speed. I had such neutral helm our first year on the boat that I went to 1-1/2 - 2" extra headstay for a little more feel and to make the rudder work a little more upwind. I may go shorter on headstay this year to see how we do, how it feels. We work the backstay when we need to, our pressure is often fairly even. The traveller gets alot uf use in the breeze. Again, Thanks and good sailing
WarBird |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 10:24am
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Hi fatjohnz, We set the lapper to the conditions for best feel and speed consistency. We don't play the lapper going upwind, we only re-adjust trim if the wind pressure changes. We use the standard lapper leads, no inhauler or outhauler. Let me explain how we set it. We have a mark on both spreaders for best reproduction of the settings. We use a tripe of black electric tape around the spreader at a distance of 7 inches from the tip of the spreader. This is the mark we use in flat water sailing, we sheet in the lapper until the leech reaches that mark. We also have a mark halfway (about 3.75 inches) for rougher waters. In very heavy winds and seas, we let the leech go all the way to the spreader tip but never looser. Halyard tension and finding the proper hole to use for the lapper is critical for performance. We use the knots meter and our feeling of the boat to determine the best setting. If you don't have the correct hole, the speed will not be steady and the boat will be harder to steer. When we have the proper hole, speed is much more constant and the boat seems to steer itself, very good feel on the helm. ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 1:47pm
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Ahhh , i wondered why there was black tape on my spreaders. Are you viewing the adjustment from the helm or the winch? thx, john ------------- the freak flag is flying |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 3:10pm
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It's the trimmer's job to set it and it's best viewed by the him/her when they are at the winch pulling the sail in after a tack. The mark can also be seen through the mailsail window (at the spreaders) but it makes it harder to see the changes in trim. When in doubt, we go down to the winch and verify trim from there. ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 14 May 2009 at 3:48pm
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My jib leach must be just a little bit too long cause i have not been able to trim the leech inside the end of the spreader. Some very helpful person (i lost the email so please remind me who you are) suggested outhauling the sheet a couple inches and shazam, i was able to trim as described and got much better balance and speed. Do you have similar suggestions for trimming the genoa? Leech on the spreader? What about the foot (when we trim tight, the foot gets stretched around the shroud). thanks for any tips, john ------------- the freak flag is flying |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 16 May 2009 at 3:55pm
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Hi fatjohnz, I find it odd that the leech would extend so much, what is the make of your sails? We don't use outhaulers on our boat. For the genoa, we set the cart so that the foot of the genoa just touches the shroud at the base (it should not be stretched around it) and the leech is about 2 inches away from the spreader. The distance from the spreader can vary a little bit depending on the sea conditions (amount of waves). ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: khardy
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 2:32pm
Quote: Originally posted by lucgmix on 16 May 2009We use the outboard genoa track and an in-hauler. The in-hauler is run on the inboard genoa track. In flat conditions we pull in the in-hauler and sheet the genoa such that the foot is strapped around the shroud base and the leach is just touching the spreader. In a lull you'll need to ease some so the spreader doesn't poke the sail. This is counter intuitive to some since most boats like a 2-3" space between the spreader and the sail leach. However, keep in mind the L28's got wide sheeting angles on for the genoa and that the spreaders are quite large for this size boat. Also, we sail in flat water. I would modify this if sailing in waves. |
Posted By: WarBird
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 11:15pm
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This has been a great learning experience for me and I thank each of you who have added some insight for us. I have set my forestay to 6 3/4" from 8 1/4' the last 4 years. If I find we've lost something I may go back long. My backstay adjust is now at least 1'1/2 ' short of the cam cleat, that 1-1/2" at the headstay pin must equate to 5" forward at the top of the mast, 20 inches of line at the 4:1 back stay adjust. Our clews will be different, up some now, also. Boom will ride higher so the traveller will seem different, a whole new boat after 4 years of 32' 8 1/4". Thanks WarBird |
Posted By: murph
Date Posted: 20 May 2009 at 2:11pm
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32' 8 1/4" is very long indeed. I once tried it at 8 " and found the helm very heavy. Its interesting to note that the L28 doesn't actually develop any weather helm when u increase the rake, but rather the helm just gets a heavy feeling, you notice this aspect more in the bigger wind ranges. But the helm always remains neutral on this boat. We did some rake testing before production started and found that 32'6 3/4" pin to pin was the minimum rake, because any less than this the mast was actually getting pulled against the mast base casting, resulting in the lower section of the spar being forced straight, not a nice uniform mast bend profile at all. We started testing at 5.5" and kept increasing the rake until you could see a uniform mast bend from top to bottom. This was all done with the boom removed and sighting up the aft side of the spar. It was amazing to see that anything less than 32ft6.5" definitely compromised the uniform bend in the spar. So we settled on 6.75 being the safe minimum The result of all this was to establish the correct forestay length so that we could build them keeping in mind that we wanted to sail the boat with the turnbuckle fully closed.... this enabled us to be able to loosen it all the way off so that the rig could be dropped without having to loosen any of the shrouds. Min Forestay lengths from the factory were set to 32ft6.75" (turnbuckle fully closed)for this reason. Dropping and raising the mast now meant all we had to do was loosen or tighten the forestay turnbuckle. Personally, I've tried various lengths and like Luc I'm always somewhere between 6.75 and 7.5" Obviously min length for big air conditions and longer for lighter conditions. The consensus I believe now is to establish a base setting of say 7.5" for light wind range, get your lowers setup for this(loosest pos)....Then when wind gets stronger all u do it tighten the forestay down some. This tightens the lowers mostly and some on the uppers which you will need as you start to apply backstay. This works very well |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 3:47pm
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I also say thanks for the great advice. Your jib trimming suggestions have been very helpful.
Lucgmix, My sailmaker is PointSails(dot com) They cut the sails for my previous boat and they cut my Laser28 lapper based on my measurements. Either my clew is a little low or maybe I have too much rake. I will check the rake based on the most recent comments. I'm currently using the outhauler to flatten the leech but if I change rake or raise the tack point a little, this could be eliminated. I also see the advice to contact Bill and Denise for sails which I will keep in mind. Also, can you confirm 34/30 (from the tunig guide) for shrouds tension? thx, john |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:03am
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Hi Fatjohnz,
The tension meters are not exactly all equal in their readings but what we usually have is around 32 on the upper shrouds and 28 on the lowers. Note that we adjust the lowers to get the mast pre-bend to best suit the cut of the main. That means that if your main sail is cut fairly deep, you will loosen the lowers to get more pre-bend, which flattens the main and on the opposite, tighten the lowers to get a straighter mast if you main is cut flat. ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 10:19am
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Thank you Luc,
And what would you look for on the main sail to tell if the pre-bend is good. Are you checking at the dock or under sail. I know this observation is quite an art; I'm just looking for a good starting point. I got the boat with a new main included but i'm not sure that the previous owner dialed it in and I don't know how the main was cut. thanks, john |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 5:34pm
| Luc, I cancel my question. I loosened the lowers to 28 today between races and she became 'un-stuck' from the water. I could see the change; got *all* the telltales to break together. Only 1 point for us ;-) Thank you . |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 9:51pm
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That's great news, congratulations for the win, keep it up! :)
You're right about the "un-stuck" feeling, when the boat is properly tuned, it just goes... It feels very light and it becomes very easy to drive. I'm glad I could help! Cheers, ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 10:07pm
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i do have one more question for you now. as i mentioned, i have found my main tune w/ the forestay eased a bit. probably in the 8.75 range.
when i tighten a couple turns on the forestay for heavy air, what would i do w/ the shrouds to roughly stay in the tuned range? thx, john |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 11:30pm
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Hi fatjohnz,
Do you mean your rake is 32 feet 8.75 inches? If that's the case, it's a lot of rake. As you know, playing with the forestay will tighten or loosen the whole rig but it will also change the ratio between the uppers and the lowers. Check post 20 May 2009 at 1:11pm in this thread. The subject of mast rake and tensions is covered. Changing the forestay length will affect the lowers more than the uppers so if you tighen the forestay, you will need to loosen the lowers more than the uppers to keep the same ratio. ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 12 June 2009 at 8:48am
| Thank you again. Yes, it makes sense to keep the ratio the same and this answers my question. Also, my front turnbuckle is very close to being closed so I will tighten it up the rest of the way and remeasure. I hope the forestay has not stretched. happey sailing, john |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 12 June 2009 at 9:54am
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Also, remember that the mast rake length is measured from center pin to center pin. To measure it, we hoist someone in the mast with a boat chair so they can hold the measuring tape at the top center pin of the forestay and the person on deck will pull on the tape to make it tight and get a more precise measurement.
Have fun! ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: khardy
Date Posted: 12 June 2009 at 11:58am
| To make measurement easier I made a reference "tick" on the swaged part of the forestay. This mark is referenced to the pin at the top of the mast. To do this I sent a buddy up the mast and had him hold a tape against the mast pin. Down below, I held the other end of the tape against the forestay swage. (The part that threads into the turnbuckle.) I picked a nice round number and marked the swage with a felt pen. I recorded the measurement and then used a file to make a permanent tick mark on the swage. Now, instead of going up the mast for accurate measurement I just measure from the tick mark to the pin on the bow. Add this to the previously measured distance from the mast pin to the tick mark and you have the pin to pin measurement. |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 12 June 2009 at 12:09pm
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Yes, good point, we use that method also but forgot to mention it.
------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 2:41pm
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Thanks to all of you for taking the time to post and share your knowledge.
We have owned Slipaweh (was Wave Equation)on Flathead Lake in MT for 3 seasons. Bought her as a light air fast cruiser, as we live in Calgary, and cannot race regularly with a crew. This year, my wife and I measured her sails and entered the race schedule to sharpen our skills. We are getting creamed! Good reading here. I will be going up in a Bosun's chair on next visit to get the forestay length correct. Shrouds tensions will be adjusted, as I think the lowers are too tight. Should make her point better and give us extra speed. The club (NFYC.org) races the evening thermals twice a week. Flat water, 6-13 knots of wind. We sail white sails as a couple. I am on the sheets. A real marriage builder. BTW, we bought retractable EZ Jax - a real marriage saver! Any suggestions on how to keep Slipaweh flat as possible for speed with two aboard in 12 knots? Using the lapper. |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 19 July 2009 at 9:30am
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Hmmm, could be almost anything or a number of things. I'm not consistently in the winners circle but here are some things you might try, {and note that opinions vary so this is just some food for thought).
When I'm real slow, the first thing I think of is the prop. Sometimes I can feel it spinning w/ the engine in neutral and shifting into gear will get it to close. Sometimes the prop is fouled w/ weeds and needs to be cleared by hand so it will close properly when sailing. Then I would say to make sure your lapper is trimmed smartly so the leech is not bowing out past the tip of the spreader. If the lapper is not trimmed, the driver will sail too far off the wind to find the slot and cause excessive healing. On the main, when I sail alone, I start out with lots of twist. So, traveler up, no vang, backstay on (to depower the top of the main) then trim the main till the boom is on center or you're over powered {this much twist would not be considered racing trim... more like survival trim but I've seen a fair number of short handed crews win races w/ this trim}. From this point of trim you would want to work on flattening the main so you get a better wing shape; keep hardening the main and letting the traveler down until you get a balance of heel, control, and speed. john |
Posted By: khardy
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 9:35am
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Slipaweh,
In a Laser 28, it won’t be easy doing well double handed against fully crewed boats. To be competitive on an L28 you need meat on the rail. That said if I had to sail double handed here are a few suggestions. On our boat there are two tracks for the lapper. I’ve never used the outboard track but you might try it if you’re sailing double handed. You won’t be able to point quite as high but you will open the slot which should help to de-power the rig and provide more forward drive. Also, I’d sheet the main hard and drop the traveler to de-power. Sheeting the main hard also tightens the forestay which will flatten, and de-power, the jib. This also helps pointing. |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 10:24am
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Hi Slipaweh,
You will need to depower the sails. Here is what I would do: 1- Set the lapper block to the position that gives you good speed and drive. Since you are only 2 on the boat, the position might be one hole behind the ideal position (full crew block position) to give it more twist. 2- Flatten the outhaul, the Laser 28 likes a flat foot on the main. 3- Put lots of backstay on. In 12 knots with 2 people, you'll probably be at maximum backstay setting. Remember that the backstay is the "Power control" for the whole boat because it flattens both sails. It flattens the main by bending the mast and flattens the jib as a result of increased rig tension which reduces headstay sag. 4- Pull hard on the main sheet to close the leech (this gives you pointing ability). Drop the traveller to keep the boat as flat as possible. If you still have too much heel, try easing a few inches on the main sheet to increase twist, you will loose a bit of pointing but will go faster if you can make the boat sail flatter. 5- Head up (feather) in puffs to keep the boat flat. I hope this helps, good luck! ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:46pm
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Thanks again to all for the great info.
I have managed to find a crew and good Helmsman to enable me to enter Slipaweh in the Montana Cup over Aug. long weekend. No better way to learn than to be sharpened by others! Your info will be put to good use. Ray |
Posted By: Jacqui22
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 4:05pm
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Hey guys - I'm new to the page and also new to Laser 28's.............I may have one to sell early next year. Would there be any interest in buying it ? At the moment its in northern Chile and being looked after there in the marina in Iquique, but it can be exported to wherever. Sorry to be a bit vague but its been very difficult finding any reference at all to Laser 28 apart from a page that appears to be out of date. I dont know if this is even the right place to post this message. Some help here would be appreciated. Regards Jacqui  |
Posted By: frfletch
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:07am
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I know a potentially interested party in Vancouver, BC area. Details?
Frank |
Posted By: Jacqui22
Date Posted: 08 August 2009 at 6:49am
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Thank you for your reply Frank. I think its very likely that the Laser will not be available until March/April of next year. I will be going to see it then in northern Chile then and will decide how to ship it back either to Europe or to north America. I will get you details as soon as I can. Its pretty basic it hasnt had anything much done to it, but it has all the necessities. Bear with me and I will get back to you. Regards Jacqui |
Posted By: WarBird
Date Posted: 21 August 2009 at 11:54am
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I want to thank all of the contributers to this thread. Ther is enough tune info here to get anybody up to speed. I hope this sharing of info is a help to all L28 sailors. But...
We haven't said alot about weight placement!!! Fore and aft in particular. We move way back in big air downwind which seems to work, but how far forward do we move in lighter air? Does anybody go forward of the shrouds? Group weight around max beam? WarBird |
Posted By: lucgmix
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 5:24pm
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Hi WarBird,
In most conditions, you want to have the water line parallel to the water. That's what we try to do except in planning conditions of course. We race with 6 on the boat and always try to go by the rule "No more than 2 people in the cockpit". If you have more than 2, chances are your weight is too far back! Going upwind in most conditions, we have the helmsmen and the main sail trimmer at their normal positions. The rest of the crew stacks on the rail with the first crew right on the shrouds (shoulder almost touching it) and the other crew members next to this guy and next to each other. In very light conditions, we might have one guy in front of the shrouds since some of the crew will on the leeward side for heel and further back than normal to keep out of the way of the forward sail. Going downwind, only the helm and spinnaker guy trimmer are in the cockpit. The mainsail trimmer is holding the boom out, the guy flying the spinnaker is standing right next to the windward shroud and the other two members position themselves to keep the waterline parallel to the water, typically sitting very close to the shrouds. In heavier wind, we might have a guy standing in the stairs looking back. ------------- Luc Gregoire Colibri 224 Tactician |
Posted By: Seawolf
Date Posted: 27 June 2013 at 1:26am
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After reading this, I went back to the boat and spent some time readjusting. Originally, I had the forestay all the way tightened and the uppers 32, Lowers 28. The backstay had about 30 inches of adjustments.
I found that to get close to the 32'6" pin to pin on the forestay I had to back off the forestay about 2 inches. I then readjusted the shrouds back to 32/28. Now this left me with about 24" of adjustment on the backstay. Now I could back off the forestay more, but I am thinking I will not have much adjustment left on the backstay. So how much adjustment should I have for the backstay so that I can still effectively depower the Main/Jib? Also How slack should my headstay be? |
Posted By: jez rees
Date Posted: 27 June 2013 at 3:35am
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Hi Seawolf, My opinion would be to set the forestay length at 9.932m pin to pin as you've done. Set the shrouds as you've done and look at the rake and pre-bend.
Obviously you're setting it for medium conditions. The backstay adjustment will depend on how your backstay is built so you can't really go on that. We need really to put more pull into ours but I'm too frightened of the 1986 mast and will flog the main when overpowered. Have a look at this image for the amount of "banana" we use: http://farroutlaser28.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/mast-rake.html |
Posted By: fatjohnz
Date Posted: 27 June 2013 at 8:15am
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There is a bit of black-art to mast bend as well. I took my crew thru a tuning session on Saturday. I use the Doyle quick tune guide to set the rig to a base setting
http://www.doylesails.com/downloads/DoyleLaser28QuickTune.pdf Then we went sailing with the lapper. Adjusted the jib (cars and sheet tension) till the shape on the leading edge of the jib looked similar top to bottom and telltales breaking roughly together. Leech trimmed inside the end of the spreaders, etc. Then we trimmed the main to the centerline, no backstay, with mainsheet tensioned till the top streamer just starts to flutter. Then stand on the bow and look back at the slot between the jib leech and main belly outline. They should compliment each other. You can fool with the sail controls a bit to see the slot shapes changing. In my case, the top 1/4 of the main had a little bag to it and the leech of the jib was quite straight in that area. Pulling on the backstay made it worse; so I concluded that the mast had a little too much prebend and tightened the lowers 3/4s on each side. So my point is that there is a lot of good advise on rig tension but every sail is a little different in how it trims due to age, stretch, cut. js |
Posted By: Seawolf
Date Posted: 27 June 2013 at 8:31am
| Oh yes, we have rake. You can find our boat on the dock by just looking for the "banana" rig. This weekend I will back off the forestay another 1 1/2 inch to achieve the magical number 32 feet, 6 3/8 inch. But I am still concerned the back stay cascade will only have about 16" of adjustments. I just had the cascade replaced with amsteel, so I could send the cascade back to the shop to have one of it's line shortened. Also still looking for an answer on how much slack in my head stay. I have adjusted so that it's "snug" right now, but after reading these post I see that I need to back it off a little and it will give the head sail more power. |