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deep rudder wanted

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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: deep rudder wanted
    Posted: 22 May 2019 at 10:38am
Here is a pic of the deep rudder on the RudderCraft website.
https://store.ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=181_151&product_id=780

RudderCraft does not have a template for the original/standard rudder. If anyone wants to part with their standard rudder, let me know. john
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Comet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 11:21am
I'm interested in the longer rudder, too. So any pix or details much appreciated.
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Bill Layton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 9:26pm
Bill do you have any pics of that new rudder? It would be interesting to see them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 9:12pm
48" would be the long rudder.  Mine is 47.5" at the trailing edge and 47" at the leading edge.
Chris
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WJRyan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJRyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 11:33am
My notes are from the leading edge and the longer rudder is built from the Farr drawings, the RudderCraft folks obtained original ones.  
Bill Ryan,

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Bill Layton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 10:53am
The Bruce Farr designed longer rudder is 47.6 inches on the trailing edge. As I recall the original short rudder was 4.5 inches shorter.. measured on the trailing edge.



Edited by Bill Layton - 20 May 2019 at 10:55am
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WJRyan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJRyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 10:51am
Hi John, 
I'm traveling this week and will measure when I get home but in my rough notes I have the standard rudder as 43 5/8" and the longer rudder as 48 1/8".  - bill  
Bill Ryan,

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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 6:09am
Hello, I called the rudder shop to confirm they were making a standard (not deep) rudder. He said it their layout measures 48".
Can you confirm that is correct? thx, john
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WJRyan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJRyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 11:03am
If you are having to "pull" the tiller and you hear a scraping sound the odds are pretty good it is bent.  I have one of those!  When we dropped it the local experts shared others experiences with trying to straighten a post and the recommendation was to trim the top trailing edge instead and to leave the post alone.  I have pictures of the repair and glass work done before I decided to get a new rudder instead, let me know and I will share.  Sorry for the hit, I know how scary it was for me!  - bill
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Bill Layton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 9:04am
Some bent shafts can be straightened and some can't. You won't know until you remove it and have some shop look at it.

Epoxy and fabric upgrades are a good idea particularly when manufacturing a rudder using the standard method of cored fiberglass. Smile
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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 7:45am
I wish I wasn't reading this post but I grounded the rudder on something hard yesterday. When she came off it felt like the the rudder top is binding firmly on the hull especially as the tiller comes through center.
I assume that is bent rudder post? I was going to haul to inspect but I suppose I can just reach under the water and feel if the rudder top is in contact with the hull. Anyone have a spare rudder ... ?

The construction materials listed for the new rudder have epoxy upgrade and fabric upgrade. Are either of these important? Thanks in advance as always, john
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Bill Layton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2018 at 10:14am
That looks great Bill, thanks for sharing that!

Originally posted by WJRyan WJRyan wrote:

As I reread the thread I wanted to share some new information about obtaining a standard or a long rudder.  I recently had to obtain a new one (underwater obstruction bent post) and found both available from:
Rudder Craft Inc.
PO Box 9667
Boise, ID 83707
866-400-2204
https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=181_151&product_id=780

They have obtained the drawings from Farr for the long rudder.  Great service, nice people, let you know more this summer.  - bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2018 at 9:21am
also keep your crew on the rail until after you round the mark. Crew tends to get off the rail in preparation for kite hoisting. In heavy air its much better to keep the entire crew on the rail until you are turned down even though your kite may not get up as quickly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2018 at 7:43am
The longer rudder is only helpful in really big seas. Don't get caught with too much vang on as that will keep the main powered. And be sure you let the jib out lots before you start easing the main. Both have to be eased off big time in those winds. I used to use the large rudder but I went back to the original rudder because it has much better feel. And it feels feather light. Whereas the longer rudder feel heavy, like an old chevy with power steering. I sail in big seas and big breeze with the original rudder all the time and I've found it's just a matter of learning to depower enough before you start bearing off. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJRyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2018 at 7:38am
As I reread the thread I wanted to share some new information about obtaining a standard or a long rudder.  I recently had to obtain a new one (underwater obstruction bent post) and found both available from:
Rudder Craft Inc.
PO Box 9667
Boise, ID 83707
866-400-2204
https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=181_151&product_id=780

They have obtained the drawings from Farr for the long rudder.  Great service, nice people, let you know more this summer.  - bill
Bill Ryan,

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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2018 at 7:23am
Once or twice a season we find ourselves racing to the windward mark in 20 knots gusting to 25+
As we go to round the mark the boom is eased to the shroud and ... it's not enough release of pressure to turn the boat. The boat continues to sail upwind and will not respond to the rudder.
Is there some trick I'm not aware of to force the boat around? Do I need to consider an extension to the rudder?
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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2014 at 8:51am
For additional information, you could google 'NACA airfoil'. When I search, a wikpedia article for National Aviation Council of Aeronautics is first on the list and a airfoils tools website is second on the list.
For example, my Merit25 keel/rudder profiles were NACA 0010; a predefined profile. So at the locations were I wanted a template, I would measure the chord length and pop that number in a tool that would generate offsets of the foil vs.increment from the leading edge (as fletch said).
If I make templates for the Laser28, I might see if I can back into one of the NACA profiles to get more data points for the template
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WJRyan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJRyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2014 at 6:34am
Thanks for the education gentlemen, Frank you are waaay more technical than I could ever plan to be! I still am trying to learn about the polars (that's where the Coke bear lives I think...)   
Bill Ryan,

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Mad Max View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mad Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2014 at 11:56pm
Page 663 will give an example of what fletch is talking about.  The book can be found in some library's.  In Buffalo your not allowed to borrow it, viewing only.

http://books.google.com/books?id=lWe8AQAAQBAJ&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=Theory+of+wing+design&source=bl&ots=H-MckAjDGy&sig=PwibY9VQ-nAp078l1B3xla6f7i0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xXlIVPalL8KIsQSEjIH4DA&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=Theory%20of%20wing%20design&f=false
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frfletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2014 at 11:04pm
sorry for the typos. Too many Margaritas. "Top and bottom, or with a wing, inside and wingtip."

Good grief! There should be a number one can call. :-(
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