Laser 28 International Class Association Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Laser 28 General > Maintenance
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Changing shaft seal on Bukh DV10LSME Saildrive
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Changing shaft seal on Bukh DV10LSME Saildrive

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
micha571 View Drop Down
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 04 October 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micha571 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Changing shaft seal on Bukh DV10LSME Saildrive
    Posted: 09 March 2011 at 11:42am
Hi,

I need to change the sealing ring on the shaft of my Bukh DV10 saildrive, since it is leaking oil. I know the right way would be to screw off the lower saildrive-housing, and then change the seal. But the six screws holding the housing are totally rounded off, there is no way of getting them out without damaging the housing.
So my question is: Is there a chance of changing the seal from the outside, after removing propeller and zinc anode? Has anyone tried replacing the seal this way?

Thanks for any help!

Regards,
Michael
Back to Top
Bill Layton View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore
Avatar

Joined: 15 September 2002
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 551
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:02pm
The rear shaft seal sits in a self contained housing that also holds the rear bearing. It's tendency is to corrode with time. The result of this corrosion is a leaking seal. The complete rear bearing housing no doubt needs to be replaced. You'll be able to confirm this once the prop and zinc have been removed for inspection. You'll need to find a way to remove the bolts even if you have to weld an allen key to them, then replace the bolts afterwards. Goodluck

Edited by Bill Layton - 09 March 2011 at 1:04pm
Back to Top
micha571 View Drop Down
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 04 October 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micha571 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:16pm
Hello Bill,

thanks for the reply.

In an explosion view I saw this bearing housing. But it looked like the sealing ring could be removed by itself, by pulling it out to the rear, after removing prop, anode, locking ring  and the washer ?

I can't find a way to upload the explosion view, but it is here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Banner280/Winter20102011#5582129308785326482

The seal is No. 20, the washer No. 21 and the locking ring No. 22 in that picture.

Or is (how?) the sealing ring fast attached to the bearing housing?

Regards, Michael

Back to Top
Bill Layton View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore
Avatar

Joined: 15 September 2002
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 551
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Layton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2011 at 2:02pm
Yes the seal can be pulled and changed. However once you remove the prop you will see the real problem lies in the housing and not the seal. I have changed this part many times and the housing is always the problem. It just corrodes away and is unable to form a tight seal around the seal and hence the leaking. :)
Back to Top
Gerry McClintoc View Drop Down
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 08 July 2003
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerry McClintoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2011 at 10:32pm
Hi
I have had success in keeping the seal in and sealed by epoxing around it and building up the corroded housing. Its not a perfect way to do it but it seems to keep mine going without changing the parts.
Back to Top
micha571 View Drop Down
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 04 October 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micha571 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2011 at 3:17am
Hi,

thanks for your help !

I am thinking of maybe not doing anything right now, but leaving it the way it is for now and tackling the repair next winter.
It is not leaking much oil, maybe one or two drops per week now as it stands on land.

But how high is the danger of water leaking in and how much water might get into the saildrive and could it be damaged by this when using it like it is for one season?

Do you have any hints on this?

Otherwise I would just try to change the seal now and change the bearing housing next winter.

Regards, Michael
Back to Top
Mad Max View Drop Down
Skipper
Skipper
Avatar

Joined: 18 June 2010
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mad Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2011 at 6:38pm
Michael

When I changed the seal on Mad Max I had the same problem with the bolt heads rounding out.  I took the next size larger allen wrench, cut off the L part to make a straight shaft and then slightly taper the end to fit the bolt to get it started.  I then pounded the shaft into the hex head which locked in.  I was then able to put a good size wrench on the shaft and was able to remove all the studs.  I believe the pounding also helped to break the studs loose.

Good Luck
Dick
Dick #122
Back to Top
micha571 View Drop Down
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 04 October 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micha571 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2011 at 4:20am
Hi,

I had success removing the sealing ring from the outside. It came out easier than I expected. The bearing housing seems to be ok, no signs of corrosion.

Thanks for your help!

Regards,
Michael
Back to Top
Chris Ross View Drop Down
Skipper
Skipper
Avatar

Joined: 16 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 70
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Ross Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2011 at 10:24am
Where does someone get a new seal and housing?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2011 at 10:30am
I just ordered one last week from Crinmar Marine (http://www.crinmar.com/). Unfortunately they don't last that long here in the salt water, and they're not cheep (~$280).
Back to Top
frfletch View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 13 May 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 363
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frfletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2011 at 11:26pm
Couple of things: If water starts getting into the gear oil, you will easily see it because the oil will turn light grey in color. It will start looking like well shook salad oil instead of gear oil which should be sort of clear. If you have that situation, I don't think it would hurt anything to overfill the gear unit which will dilute the effects of the small amount of water that gets in, and it will also help lessen the water that gets in by creating some positive pressure head from the inside of the drive unit. Water can only come in because the pressure on the outside is greater than on the inside, and the more oil on the inside will reduce the pressure differential.

Regarding the removal of the bolts, the ideas so far expressed are all useful. The one not mentioned is to drill into the top of the bolts with the appropriate size drill, and remove the screws with an "easy out". If you are not familiar with "easy outs", they sort of look like a cross between a screw and a tap, but are left hand threaded (for use with right hand threaded screws) and the threads are tapered. So when you start it into the end hole you have dilled (made easy by the fact that the drill will center on the warn allen screw hole), you turn the easy out to the left and because it is tapered in tightens up on the screw and then s you keep turning to the left it just unscrews the subject screw. A set of easy outs costs very little at your local machine supply or automotive tool supply store. They are handy to have around.
Back to Top
Ron Waterson View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore
Avatar

Joined: 21 October 2014
Location: Rivals, KY
Status: Offline
Points: 114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Waterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2016 at 10:32pm
Looks like I have a leak at the shaft seal.  I had water in my gear oil, so pulled the boat to check.  I drained and refilled, then wrapped a diaper around the sail drive and waited.  Although I was hoping that I would find a leak at the drain screw, what I found was an oil stained diaper around the zinc area, which seems to indicate the shaft seal is bad.  Fortunately, the boat came with a spare.  Now I have to put it on.  I have read everything here at site regarding replacement.  I have the DV8.  I see the ideas for removing screws...does anyone know what size the allen screws are?

Would anyone like to provide a step by step from their previous experience?  All parts/tools/sealing compounds needed before I crack her open?  I would be super grateful.  I've had the prop and the zinc off, so I'm good to that point.

Thanks,
  
  Ron
Hull 147 - Angel's Share
Back to Top
Mad Max View Drop Down
Skipper
Skipper
Avatar

Joined: 18 June 2010
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mad Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2016 at 8:18am
Hi Ron

I just replaced the seal on mine this fall.  I believe the allen wrench is 5 mm, not positive.

The seal I used is TCM 17X30X7TC.  Metric Oil seal -  Saft 0.669 x OD 1.181 from Buffalo Bearings $4.00.

You may have luck digging out the old seal.  For me its just as easy to remove the bottom half.  How ever, the first time I removed it was a little nerve racking breaking the 6 bolts loose.  See above post.  Also the linkage is a little tricky getting lined up. 
Dick #122
Back to Top
frfletch View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 13 May 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 363
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frfletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2016 at 2:42pm
Ron,
The allen wrenchis 6mm. Clean the allen head of the screw very well to be sure the wrench gets a good bite. It will be a bit tough to get the first crack, but it should yield. Be careful not to damage the screw head or your job will become more difficult.

You said that your boat came with a spare seal. Please confirm if you mean that it came with a spare seal (meaning just the rubber seal ring part), or did it come with a spare Rear Bearing and Seal Assembly. Crinmar never sold the seals separately and only sold the entire assembly which cost near $300 if I remember. The original rubber seal is unusual and is no longer available. It was a 30 x 17 x 9mm. What is unusual about it is that it is actually a double seal made so that one seal keeps the oil in and the other keeps the water out. The other response to your post suggests a 30 x 17 x 7mm. That won't do because it is a single seal. If you have a spare seal that is a double seal (note such a seal is configured like two seals placed back-to-back) then you can just change it. It can be done without removing the Rear Bearing and Seal Assembly but it is not easy to get it out. It is possible to pry it out with a screwdriver, then clean up the seal housing and replace with the replacement original seal (if you really, really have one....which I doubt).

Otherwise you must take the lower bit off the leg. Not really a problem.

1. Drain the oil.
2. On the port side of the lower leg you will find a flat head screw on the lower side going transversely across the lower part of the leg. That screw holds the bottom of the shifting linkage in place and acts as a pivot for it. Clean out all the marine crustacea, and remove the screw.
3. Remove the 6 allen screws and pop the bottom of the leg off.
4. When you remove the leg, the prop shaft together with gears, multiple spacers, etc, will also drop out. Don't let it fall out with gears rolling around on the dock, and most importantly loosing the sequence of the spacers. These spacers keep the shaft and its gears in perfect alignment with the main drive gear coming down from the motor. If you loose the assembly sequence of the spacers, you will never get the gears properly aligned you will have to follow a procedure that requires having the entire leg out of the boat, which requires removal of the engine. So, you need two people and you must very carefully take that bottom piece off, knowing and expecting the shaft to drop out, and making sure that someone is under it with two hands holding something like a towel waiting to cradle that shaft assembly when it drops. It may not drop.....it may sort of stay in place because of the sealant used in the assembly and it may sort of stick to the upper unit. Then when you turn your back, it will fall out and bits will go all over the place. No! No! No! If it sticks, someone must hold it with a towel, keeping everything in place, while the other person just taps down on the prop side of the shaft and knocks it loose.
5. Lay the shaft assembly somewhere safe preserving its original assembly. Keep it wrapped in the towel.
6. The Rear Seal and Bearing Assembly is trapped between the two parts of the unit. When you tap down on the prop side of the shaft, that assembly will come out with the shaft. That is the only bit you may remove from the assembly.
7. The outside of the Rear Bearing and Seal Assembly has a Stainless cir-clip (keeper) usually retaining a very thin stainless washer, which backs up, protects, and retains the rubber seal. Remove the keeper and the washer. Then place the assembly seal-side down on a piece of wood and knock the seal out from the opposite end using a drift or small screw driver and a hammer. It has also been put in the seal housing using a sealant so will be a little tough.
8. Clean up the seal housing, and then use the required sealant to put in place the replacement seal (which I don't really think you have), and put the washer back on together with the keeper.
9. With the above done you may now reassemble everything. Use the DV8/10 workshop manual as your guide, but it is relatively simple. Your assistant will have to hold the shaft assembly up into its new position with the Rear Bearing and Seal Assembly on the shaft. The Rear Bearing and Seal Assembly has a little slit on the side and that must align with a small tit in the leg housing. This prevents the assembly from spinning with the shaft. Also, on the fore end of the shaft assembly, there is one spacer with a tab on it. That aligns it a special way with the housing also to prevent it spinning. It is easy to pay attention to it when you take the shaft out and then make sure it goes back the same way, otherwise refer to the shop manual. Easier to track it on disassembly though if you are a first timer.
10. On reassembly I use a silicone sealant from Permatex, though that is not the recommended sealant. In any case, I use that, then tighten the screws to just snug, wait for the silicone to set, then torque the screws down.
11. Your next job is to re-align the bottom of the linkage system with the screw hole so that you can replace the pivot screw with the flat head. Use a long screw driver that will fit into the screw hold, or a rod, drift, etc. to help align the hole. Your partner may have to be in the boat gently moving the shift lever around to align the linkage with the hole in the casing. When it is aligned and the rod will go through retract the rod and replace the pivot screw.

NEW CHAPTER:

Now lets say that you don't have the right replacement seal. If you have the entire new Rear Seal and Bearing Assembly then simply replace the old one with the new. But lets assume you have a seal......probably not a double seal, but the closest size someone could find such as a single 30 x 17 x 7mm. Don't use that. Instead, here is what to do:

1. You are going to buy two seals that are 30 x 17 x 5mm. When you place these back-to-back they will be a total of 10mm thick which when placed into the bearing assembly will not give you enough room to replace the retaining washer and keeper. The original is 9mm. We are going to have to use a lathe to deepen the bore on the Rear Bearing and Seal Assembly by 1mm, or even a bit more, say 1.2mm. There is plenty of meat on the part, so no problem. This will allow the two new seals to be put in place and allow room for the retaining washer and keeper (cir-clip). Literally this is a 5 minute job on a lathe, so if you have one, or have a friend that owns a lathe, bring the beer and get it done. Other than that, take it to any shop with a lathe and they can do it while you wait. It is a very small cut.
2. On re-assembly, place the two seals in the assembly back-to-back with the open sides of the seal such that one faces fore to retain oil, and the other faces aft to keep the water out. Again I use the red silicone sealant from Permatex, but you can use the same or the equivalent of whatever the workshop manual suggests. You just don't want it to leak.

The two seals will cost about $4.00 each. A new assembly will be near $300, so it is worth doing.

Good luck with the project. When you are done, you will know more about your boat!
Back to Top
frfletch View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 13 May 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 363
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frfletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2016 at 2:45pm
Ron,
One last thing...if you buy or order the replacement seals from an auto parts dealer, make sure to specify that the springs in the seal are stainless. I have ordered these from Lordco in the past, but if your local auto parts dealer can't find them, just go to Amazon and have them sent.
Back to Top
Ron Waterson View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore
Avatar

Joined: 21 October 2014
Location: Rivals, KY
Status: Offline
Points: 114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Waterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2016 at 4:17pm
Thank you Fletch and Dick.  That info will be great to work with.

If you look at page 40 and 41 of the manual http://www.cvrm.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Laser28_Manual.pdf

I have a spare 17, which is described as "bearing housing".  It has a rubber looking ring that fits into a groove on the housing.  It looks new.  I thought that 17 is the part that needs replaced....do I have that wrong?  BTW My boat was in salt water for one year (last owner) of its life...fresh water now.  
I have the workshop manual you refer to.  

  Ron


Edited by Ron Waterson - 16 January 2016 at 4:52pm
Hull 147 - Angel's Share
Back to Top
frfletch View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 13 May 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 363
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frfletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2016 at 9:09pm
Yes, I see the manual refers to it as the bearing housing. That is it. Be sure the big O ring is in good shape, or replace it. With that part y our job is much easier.
Back to Top
Ron Waterson View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore
Avatar

Joined: 21 October 2014
Location: Rivals, KY
Status: Offline
Points: 114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Waterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2016 at 9:22pm
Awesome.  Thanks for taking the time to explain.

  Ron
Hull 147 - Angel's Share
Back to Top
John Mills View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 February 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 119
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Mills Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2016 at 8:09am
I happen to have the Bukh workshop manual , it  came with my boat, not the little maintenance manual  - it is fairly big  but I could scan and Email to you . 
Unplugged
# 164
NOTL
Back to Top
Ron Waterson View Drop Down
Commodore
Commodore
Avatar

Joined: 21 October 2014
Location: Rivals, KY
Status: Offline
Points: 114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Waterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2016 at 9:15am
John,

Thanks, but the big boy manual is available online.  I've printed up the "essential to my work" pages.  Your timing on the post is uncanny though....we are having a weird warm winter day here today, and I am heading down to the boat to see if I can crack the Allen bolts today. 

 http://www.boatservicehaarlem.nl/bukh_dv8lsme_manual.pdf
Hull 147 - Angel's Share
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.03
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.297 seconds.