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What the winners use??

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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2009 at 10:19am
Thank you Luc,
And what would you look for on the main sail to tell if the pre-bend is good. Are you checking at the dock or under sail. I know this observation is quite an art; I'm just looking for a good starting point. I got the boat with a new main included but i'm not sure that the previous owner dialed it in and I don't know how the main was cut.
thanks, john
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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2009 at 5:34pm
Luc, I cancel my question. I loosened the lowers to 28 today between races and she became 'un-stuck' from the water. I could see the change; got *all* the telltales to break together. Only 1 point for us ;-) Thank you .
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lucgmix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucgmix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2009 at 9:51pm
That's great news, congratulations for the win, keep it up! :)

You're right about the "un-stuck" feeling, when the boat is properly tuned, it just goes... It feels very light and it becomes very easy to drive.

I'm glad I could help!

Cheers,
Luc Gregoire

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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2009 at 10:07pm
i do have one more question for you now. as i mentioned, i have found my main tune w/ the forestay eased a bit. probably in the 8.75 range.
when i tighten a couple turns on the forestay for heavy air, what would i do w/ the shrouds to roughly stay in the tuned range?
thx, john
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lucgmix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucgmix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2009 at 11:30pm
Hi fatjohnz,

Do you mean your rake is 32 feet 8.75 inches? If that's the case, it's a lot of rake.

As you know, playing with the forestay will tighten or loosen the whole rig but it will also change the ratio between the uppers and the lowers.

Check post 20 May 2009 at 1:11pm in this thread. The subject of mast rake and tensions is covered.

Changing the forestay length will affect the lowers more than the uppers so if you tighen the forestay, you will need to loosen the lowers more than the uppers to keep the same ratio.

Luc Gregoire

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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2009 at 8:48am
Thank you again. Yes, it makes sense to keep the ratio the same and this answers my question. Also, my front turnbuckle is very close to being closed so I will tighten it up the rest of the way and remeasure. I hope the forestay has not stretched. happey sailing, john
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lucgmix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucgmix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2009 at 9:54am
Also, remember that the mast rake length is measured from center pin to center pin. To measure it, we hoist someone in the mast with a boat chair so they can hold the measuring tape at the top center pin of the forestay and the person on deck will pull on the tape to make it tight and get a more precise measurement.

Have fun!
Luc Gregoire

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khardy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2009 at 11:58am
To make measurement easier I made a reference "tick" on the swaged part of the forestay. This mark is referenced to the pin at the top of the mast. To do this I sent a buddy up the mast and had him hold a tape against the mast pin. Down below, I held the other end of the tape against the forestay swage. (The part that threads into the turnbuckle.) I picked a nice round number and marked the swage with a felt pen. I recorded the measurement and then used a file to make a permanent tick mark on the swage. Now, instead of going up the mast for accurate measurement I just measure from the tick mark to the pin on the bow. Add this to the previously measured distance from the mast pin to the tick mark and you have the pin to pin measurement.
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lucgmix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucgmix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2009 at 12:09pm
Yes, good point, we use that method also but forgot to mention it.


Edited by lucgmix - 12 June 2009 at 12:10pm
Luc Gregoire

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2009 at 2:41pm
Thanks to all of you for taking the time to post and share your knowledge.
We have owned Slipaweh (was Wave Equation)on Flathead Lake in MT for 3 seasons.
Bought her as a light air fast cruiser, as we live in Calgary, and cannot race regularly with a crew.
This year, my wife and I measured her sails and entered the race schedule to sharpen our skills. We are getting creamed!
Good reading here. I will be going up in a Bosun's chair on next visit to get the forestay length correct. Shrouds tensions will be adjusted, as I think the lowers are too tight. Should make her point better and give us extra speed.
The club (NFYC.org) races the evening thermals twice a week. Flat water, 6-13 knots of wind. We sail white sails as a couple. I am on the sheets. A real marriage builder. BTW, we bought retractable EZ Jax - a real marriage saver!

Any suggestions on how to keep Slipaweh flat as possible for speed with two aboard in 12 knots? Using the lapper.
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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2009 at 9:30am
Hmmm, could be almost anything or a number of things. I'm not consistently in the winners circle but here are some things you might try, {and note that opinions vary so this is just some food for thought).
When I'm real slow, the first thing I think of is the prop. Sometimes I can feel it spinning w/ the engine in neutral and shifting into gear will get it to close. Sometimes the prop is fouled w/ weeds and needs to be cleared by hand so it will close properly when sailing.
Then I would say to make sure your lapper is trimmed smartly so the leech is not bowing out past the tip of the spreader. If the lapper is not trimmed, the driver will sail too far off the wind to find the slot and cause excessive healing.
On the main, when I sail alone, I start out with lots of twist. So, traveler up, no vang, backstay on (to depower the top of the main) then trim the main till the boom is on center or you're over powered {this much twist would not be considered racing trim... more like survival trim but I've seen a fair number of short handed crews win races w/ this trim}. From this point of trim you would want to work on flattening the main so you get a better wing shape; keep hardening the main and letting the traveler down until you get a balance of heel, control, and speed.
john
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2009 at 9:35am
Slipaweh,

In a Laser 28, it won’t be easy doing well double handed against fully crewed boats. To be competitive on an L28 you need meat on the rail. That said if I had to sail double handed here are a few suggestions.

On our boat there are two tracks for the lapper. I’ve never used the outboard track but you might try it if you’re sailing double handed. You won’t be able to point quite as high but you will open the slot which should help to de-power the rig and provide more forward drive. Also, I’d sheet the main hard and drop the traveler to de-power. Sheeting the main hard also tightens the forestay which will flatten, and de-power, the jib. This also helps pointing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucgmix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2009 at 10:24am
Hi Slipaweh,

You will need to depower the sails. Here is what I would do:

1- Set the lapper block to the position that gives you good speed and drive. Since you are only 2 on the boat, the position might be one hole behind the ideal position (full crew block position) to give it more twist.

2- Flatten the outhaul, the Laser 28 likes a flat foot on the main.

3- Put lots of backstay on. In 12 knots with 2 people, you'll probably be at maximum backstay setting. Remember that the backstay is the "Power control" for the whole boat because it flattens both sails. It flattens the main by bending the mast and flattens the jib as a result of increased rig tension which reduces headstay sag.

4- Pull hard on the main sheet to close the leech (this gives you pointing ability). Drop the traveller to keep the boat as flat as possible. If you still have too much heel, try easing a few inches on the main sheet to increase twist, you will loose a bit of pointing but will go faster if you can make the boat sail flatter.

5- Head up (feather) in puffs to keep the boat flat.

I hope this helps, good luck!
Luc Gregoire

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:46pm
Thanks again to all for the great info.
I have managed to find a crew and good Helmsman to enable me to enter Slipaweh in the Montana Cup over Aug. long weekend.
No better way to learn than to be sharpened by others!
Your info will be put to good use.
Ray
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacqui22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2009 at 4:05pm
Hey guys - I'm new to the page and also new to Laser 28's.............I may have one to sell early next year. Would there  be any interest in buying it ?    At the moment its in northern Chile and being looked after there in the marina in Iquique, but it can be exported to wherever.
Sorry to be a bit vague but its been very difficult finding any reference at all to Laser 28 apart from a page that appears to be out of date.
I dont know if this is even the right place to post this message. Some help here would be appreciated. Regards Jacqui
Cry

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frfletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:07am
I know a potentially interested party in Vancouver, BC area. Details?

Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacqui22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2009 at 6:49am
Thank you for your reply Frank. I think its very likely that the Laser will not be available until March/April of next year. I will be going to see it then in northern Chile then and will decide how to ship it back either to Europe or to north America.
I will get you details as soon as I can. Its pretty basic it hasnt had anything much done to it, but it has all the necessities.  Bear with me and I will get back to you.
Regards
Jacqui

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WarBird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2009 at 11:54am
I want to thank all of the contributers to this thread. Ther is enough tune info here to get anybody up to speed. I hope this sharing of info is a help to all L28 sailors. But...
We haven't said alot about weight placement!!! Fore and aft in particular. We move way back in big air downwind which seems to work, but how far forward do we move in lighter air? Does anybody go forward of the shrouds? Group weight around max beam?

WarBird
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucgmix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2010 at 5:24pm
Hi WarBird,

In most conditions, you want to have the water line parallel to the water. That's what we try to do except in planning conditions of course.

We race with 6 on the boat and always try to go by the rule "No more than 2 people in the cockpit". If you have more than 2, chances are your weight is too far back!

Going upwind in most conditions, we have the helmsmen and the main sail trimmer at their normal positions. The rest of the crew stacks on the rail with the first crew right on the shrouds (shoulder almost touching it) and the other crew members next to this guy and next to each other.

In very light conditions, we might have one guy in front of the shrouds since some of the crew will on the leeward side for heel and further back than normal to keep out of the way of the forward sail.

Going downwind, only the helm and spinnaker guy trimmer are in the cockpit. The mainsail trimmer is holding the boom out, the guy flying the spinnaker is standing right next to the windward shroud and the other two members position themselves to keep the waterline parallel to the water, typically sitting very close to the shrouds. In heavier wind, we might have a guy standing in the stairs looking back.
Luc Gregoire

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seawolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2013 at 1:26am
After reading this, I went back to the boat and spent some time readjusting. Originally, I had the forestay all the way tightened and the uppers 32, Lowers 28. The backstay had about 30 inches of adjustments.
   I found that to get close to the 32'6" pin to pin on the forestay I had to back off the forestay about 2 inches. I then readjusted the shrouds back to 32/28. Now this left me with about 24" of adjustment on the backstay. Now I could back off the forestay more, but I am thinking I will not have much adjustment left on the backstay. So how much adjustment should I have for the backstay so that I can still effectively depower the Main/Jib? Also How slack should my headstay be?
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