light wind performance

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   Hello,

since 3 seasons I'm sailing a Red Fox 290, which is basically a Laser 28 but with 300 kg more lead in the keel. We are probably the only Laser sailing/racing east of the UK. So we always have to participate in handicap races. 

The two first years were not that successful but this season we managed to win some races. However, we still have a 'dramatic' problem at light winds (below let's say 6 knots). As long as we have a real upwind course we still have a small chance to survive but all what is not close hauled means to be passed easily by most of our direct competitors.  My question now is whether this light wind weakness is a characteristic of the Laser or our specific problem. It would be nice to hear your opinion!

The boat needs a new genoa 1. Due to the recent Euro-US$-ratio it might be interesting to order it overseas. Is anybody willing to give me some price info (by pn?) and to recommend a sailmaker?

Best regards from the Baltic Sea coast (Kiel)

Klaus 

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redfox Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rookie Joined: 24 November 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 12	Post Options Post Reply Quote redfox Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: light wind performance Posted: 07 October 2007 at 4:27am
	Hello, since 3 seasons I'm sailing a Red Fox 290, which is basically a Laser 28 but with 300 kg more lead in the keel. We are probably the only Laser sailing/racing east of the UK. So we always have to participate in handicap races. The two first years were not that successful but this season we managed to win some races. However, we still have a 'dramatic' problem at light winds (below let's say 6 knots). As long as we have a real upwind course we still have a small chance to survive but all what is not close hauled means to be passed easily by most of our direct competitors. My question now is whether this light wind weakness is a characteristic of the Laser or our specific problem. It would be nice to hear your opinion! The boat needs a new genoa 1. Due to the recent Euro-US$-ratio it might be interesting to order it overseas. Is anybody willing to give me some price info (by pn?) and to recommend a sailmaker? Best regards from the Baltic Sea coast (Kiel) Klaus
	Klaus

Bill Brock Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Skipper Joined: 08 February 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 53	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bill Brock Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 October 2007 at 10:46am
	Hello Klaus, If you are doing everything you should be doing going down wind such as releasing your back stay, letting out your out haul to give you good draft in the main, and not over trimming your sails, you should probably take a close look at the bottom of your boat. I have never had a problem being competitive down wind, but the bottom of my boat is kept clean and is almost as smooth as a baby’s bottom. With 300 kilograms (approximately 660+ lbs) of additional weight in the keel if you are sailing with five people you may have too much weight onboard for a light air day. If your crew averages 180 lbs and there are five of you that is 900 lbs of crew and 660 lbs in the keel for a total of 1560 lbs (709 kilograms) of weight where a Laser 28 racing one design can not have a crew weight more than 455 kilograms (1001 lbs in crew). That says you have 1.56 times the weight of in crew and addition keel ballast as a standard Laser 28. An additional 560 lbs of weight is a lot of weight and could be the cause of your down wind problem. The Laser 28 is a light displacement boat and like all light displacement boats is very sensitive to weight. Regarding sails and a new No. 1 (153), there are a number of very good sail makers over here. I would suggest you try Bill Layton who is with, I believe, Quantum Sails in Canada. He oversees this web site and is apparently an excellent Laser 28 sailor. His e-mail address is: color=#0000ffbilden@sympatico.ca. I bought a 3DL 153 from North Sails and it looks to be the finest headsail I have ever owned. This year is the third year for the sail and it still looks great. My contact is Perry Lewis at the North Sails Chicago loft and you can mention my name. His e-mail is: color=#0000ffperry.lewis@northsails.com. If you are going to order now is the time. He will quote you a standard price, but ask what discount is going on now. This is the slow time of year for sailmakers. You will probably be looking at $1800 to $2000 for a 3DL, but this is just a guess on my part. With sailmaking you really do get what you pay for, so if you think you are getting ahead by buying a less expensive sail, I would suggest you reconsider. Hope this helps, Bill

redfox Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rookie Joined: 24 November 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 12	Post Options Post Reply Quote redfox Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 October 2007 at 6:44am
	Hello Bill, thank you for your answer and information. I guess we always consider the basic essentials of a correct trim and the boat's bottom is almost perfect for a boat that the stays in the water for the whole season. So it seems that the extra keel weight at least to some extent should be the reason for our light wind problems. Another reason may be our mainsail which is rather flat... However, in this context it would be very interesting to get some information about the actual weight of a 'real' Laser 28 ready for sailing (sails, anchor etc. on board). The displacement of 1795 kg/3950 lbs given in the brochure seems to me a bit away from reality. Best regards Klaus (I go sailing now – probably for the last time before the boats gets out of the water for the winter break)
	Klaus

khardy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132	Post Options Post Reply Quote khardy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 October 2007 at 9:39pm
	klause, I wouldn't say the stock laser 28 is "weak" in light wind but i would say it is a lot easier to sail to its potential when the wind gets up around 12-kts. Particularly if you are sailing down wind against mast head kites. Dragging around another 300-lb in the keel does not help. Obviously adding the weight was intended to help the boat when the wind is up; but you pay the butcher's bill when the wind is light. I did read somewhere that they never could quite get the weight down to 1795-lgs. But they were all more or less the same so i'm pretty sure you'll be 300-lb heaver than my boat regardless. regards, ken