New Sails for Racing PHRF?

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   I have been racing my Laser 28 #220 for over a year here on Florida's East Coast with my old North dacron Lapper and Main. I race against Lindenberg 28's, S2 9.1, Tarten 10's, J27's and J29's. I do well under10 kts of wind. But in 15kts and above I fall behind. I have a real problem flattening my dacron main. Who makes the fastest PHRF sails and what sailcloth (type and weight) would you recommend for 13 - 17kts of wind?

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Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: New Sails for Racing PHRF? Posted: 18 November 2002 at 6:22pm
	I have been racing my Laser 28 #220 for over a year here on Florida's East Coast with my old North dacron Lapper and Main. I race against Lindenberg 28's, S2 9.1, Tarten 10's, J27's and J29's. I do well under10 kts of wind. But in 15kts and above I fall behind. I have a real problem flattening my dacron main. Who makes the fastest PHRF sails and what sailcloth (type and weight) would you recommend for 13 - 17kts of wind?

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 November 2002 at 11:36am
	Jim The one design Lapper and Main designs are just about as fast as you are going to find for PHRF. The boat should be able to sail it's rating above 15 knots of breeze. I suspect that with a new one design lapper and main this problem will disappear. Do you have any weight restrictions in the area that your sail in? In greater than 10 knots of breeze extra weight is extra speed. If you are racing exclusively PHRF then it may be worth adding a med-heavy genoa to your inventory. Although you are doing well in the light stuff we have found that a 1/2 oz running kite is very effective on the boat. Both Bill and Rudy who post on this board would be able to set you up with fast sails.

Bill Layton Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bill Layton Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 November 2002 at 11:46am
	Testing

Napadelis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rookie Joined: 10 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote Napadelis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 November 2002 at 12:47pm
	hi Jim, i've been told that the dacron lapper is just as fast for that range. one thing i noticed about other classes that i've raced in is that one or two lofts on the continent specialize in sails for that class. for stars, Mark Reynolds sets the standards; for etchells Dave Curtiss seems to be the box. i would say that for Laser 28's the quantum quebec guys (Denise Beinvenue/Bill Layton) have done an excellent job in developing sails for the boats. you'll notice that Reynolds and Curtiss are champions for their respective classes, so is Denise. when i bot a new genoa this summer, i asked around. i asked the owners of one of the faster boats in Toronto, why he went with doyle instead of quantum. his main reason was of a personal nature as opposed to a pure boat performance reason. granted he is fast; but, i think it's how the boat is sailed. btw, the new genoa made a real difference in my upwind performance. too bad that bad decisions made behind the traveller (that's, uh, me standing back there) didn't capitalize on these gains.
	Bob Magtanong Napadelis CAN217

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 December 2002 at 1:39pm
	Jim I have a L28 (#237 - Tiggerific) that I PHRF race on the Chesapeake Bay. When I bought the boat 2 years ago from the original owner, it had all the original sails. I have upgraded the genoa to kevlar. I have had the same problems as you report using the original North Main that was cut with a lot of belly. I have just ordered a Tri-radial Kevlar main from North Sails in Annapolis (Jim Cullen). I ordered the sail with the big roach on the recommendation of Tom Price, who has a L28, modified for MORC. I makes the boat significantly faster off the wind as well as upwind. The sail is a lot flatter than the old sail (which is somewhat stretched after 15 years) Allan Wilkins

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 December 2002 at 4:34pm
	Thanks guys for the helpful advice. I checked with both North and Quantum. I just bought Bill Layton's set of Quantum sails. They look real good. However our next race is not until the end of February.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 January 2003 at 12:01pm
	Jim, Did you add to the standard one-design inventory for your L-28? I still believe that to race effectively in PHRF you need both a light and heavy air gennny. Second choice is a light running kite.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 January 2003 at 5:44pm
	Chris, I purchased the sails Bill Layton used on Convictus last season. They are class sails. The Genoa is a 150 made with Quantum TFM 06 Laminate (same as Mumm30 and Farr40 black sails). It seems to be a very light weight sail. Also purchased a class lapper made from 6.12 Pentex, a heavy stiff sail. What do you mean by a heavy air genny? Something in between the 150 and the lapper or a heavy weight 150? I only have the origional class kite. What winds do you find the light running kite benificial. As a second spinnakerwould you go for that over a reaching chute?

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 January 2003 at 3:28pm
	Jim, The class genny is a very good all-purpose sail however it suffers at the extreme ends. In the light stuff it is difficult to get the sail full enough due to the forestay tension inherent in the rig. We have found that a light air genny (good for 6 knots true and down) is very effective. This genny is cut with 4-6 inches of additional luff curve. In heavy stuff (in waves where the lapper is struggling for power) where more power is required a heavy #1 cut flatter with a straighter exit can be carried in stronger breeze. This sail is not used under 6 knots true. The class lapper is a well optimized sail and I am sure the sail that you got from Bill is as fast as any thing out there. As a second spinnaker I would go for a light running kite.. We use a 1/2 oz runner in w/l races upto 12 knots true. We generally can sail a few degrees lower at the same speed. I have a two reaching kites.... A 3/4 oz Assymetrial cut very flat with a high clew that I use for light-moderate air high angle (upto 45 deg AWA) reaching and a 3/4 Oz narrow shouldered (ex santa cruz 27) that we use for beam reaching and heavy air running. If you are looking to add to your inventory you might consider a new light air kite and pick-up a used reaching kite. Remember that my comments only apply to racing PHRF.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 March 2003 at 1:01pm
	Jim, How have the new sails performed?? We race PHRF in Vancouver against much the same boats... what are your experiences against the T10's J27's and J29's???