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Posted: 19 September 2002 at 10:41pm |
This may be the start of a religous debate... Who makes the best sails for a Laser28? Which sailmaker has provided you with the best/worst service? What are the pro's and con's of Class sails vs. PHRF optimized construction? Bolt rope or mast slides for the main? -I have one season of experience with my boat. It came equipped with '98 vintage North panelled dacron main and 3DL Genoa. The Genoa is starting to get alot of holes, but the shape is still pretty good. A lapper made by D&B??? and various older bags of sails. The '84 original .75oz spinnaker is still holding together along with a much younger .5oz from Haarstick. I plan to add a new main and genoa next season. Any suggestions? Who is D&B? Thanks, Doug |
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Foghorn
Admin Group Joined: 24 August 2002 Location: Montreal, QC Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Quote: Originally posted by Doug Farrand on 19 September 2002 Yep, you're right...this is not 'Catholic' Quote: Originally posted by Doug Farrand on 19 September 2002 I guess to some extent these 2 questions can be answered together. I'll hold back on my opinion but give you some food for thought.
Quote: Originally posted by Doug Farrand on 19 September 2002 I have yet to see a PHRF 'optimised' sail that is faster than the one design sails. That said, the 2 areas people have exploited for PHRF are;
As I mentioned, since none of these sails in my opinion are actually faster than one design sails, it is really a cost/benefit situation that has yet to be clearly demonstrated in favour of PHRF designs. Quote: Originally posted by Doug Farrand on 19 September 2002 For racing I think there is no question that a bolt rope is preferable. Quote: Originally posted by Doug Farrand on 19 September 2002 DB Sails were marketted by Denise Bienvenu. Quote: Originally posted by Doug Farrand on 19 September 2002 I won't make any suggestions on the brand, instead I offer food for thought;
If you sail against Jet, who uses North Sails, and Rags, who uses Doyle Sails ( though recently some are not class) you will be able to sparr against 2 fast boats in your area. Better still is if you come to CORK where you can sail against the rest of us and many boats using Quantum Sails. If you get your boat speed up to par with the top of the fleet at CORK, you will be sailing the boat at its potential and once at this level, you will also do well in PHRF! Of course all of this is just my opinion, but after sailing the boat since the prototype, having done plenty of PHRF racing and a lot of MORC racing with all sorts of changes in search of the best rating (23.6 was our lowest)...these are my humble thoughts.
Cheers...and good sailing |
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Paul White
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Doug and Paul I agree with your comments regarding OD sails and boat speed, however if you intent to race mostly in a PHRF enviroment then there is a few optimizations that can be done. 1. Add a light air Genoa- have it built with LOTS of luff curve. 2. Add a 0.5 oz Running Kite As far as sailmakers is concerned... Look for service and also considerer Sobstab for spinnakers and UK for Genny's. |
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Foghorn
Admin Group Joined: 24 August 2002 Location: Montreal, QC Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Quote: Originally posted by Chris Ladd on 20 September 2002 Good points Chris Cheers, |
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Paul White
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Thanks for sharing your experience. We have the running kite already. Still need to stretch the pole back to class length to get back our down wind potential. The previous owner cut it down to J length to get a rating break. Class sails seem to make sense as we hope to see everyone in Kingston next year. I was pleased with our upwind boat speed this season with the North sails against Rags, Rascal, Chasse and Plum Danish in LORC and Youngstown Levels. I always lost a few boat lengths downwind with our little pole though... (nice to have something to blame other than my driving ). Quantum has given excellent service locally from my J days. |
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Doug, The class kite needs a full length pole... Now for PHRF I have gone another 4 inches longer (with wider kites) and taken a further penality. If you are going to race some OD then I would say go with the class size pole. Is your running kite full width? One more thought... I have had good success running a Blast Reacher/ Code Zero in PHRF (works great for cruising as well). Check to see if your sailmaker guy can cut up an old .75 oz chute. No penalities yet for running this configuration here, but the mid girth must be 75% of the foot.
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I race PHRF in the Boston area and this was my first year with the boat. I bought a new one design mainsail and genoa from Doyle last spring. I like the sails, and the boat went a lot faster once I got them. I debated going with a pentex or kevlar mainsail, but in the end decided that my first set of new sails would be from a one-design loft. I figure the one-design sail makers would be more familiar with the quirks of a Laser 28. The dacron main feels very heavy compared to the kevlar genoa. I think I will go with a more exotic material in the mainsail the next time I buy one. I am going to buy a .5 oz runner this winter for PHRF. The standard .75oz spinnaker is way too heavy for most conditions.
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Foghorn
Admin Group Joined: 24 August 2002 Location: Montreal, QC Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Quote: Originally posted by Chris Ladd on 20 September 2002 This is an interesting point Chris. In the sailing we have done, we have never found an actual benefit by using a shorter spinaker pole and smaller chute. Given the ratings advantage versus the loss in performance, you're better off staying with stock size. It's interesting you are even going beyond that . Cheers, |
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Paul White
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Foghorn
Admin Group Joined: 24 August 2002 Location: Montreal, QC Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Quote: Originally posted by Dave on 20 September 2002 Dave, I think you made a wise choice for a starting point. You ended up with a sail that works and didn't over pay for it. Yes the dacron does weigh a few ounces, certainly more than the genoa. But generally it takes much more abuse;
While pentex and kevlar have their advantages, they have a few disadvantages too and they will show in the conditions mantioned above. I think the only advantage to exotic materials for main sails is the weight savings, this might be very desirable if you sail in 5 knots or less quite often...like say Annapolis for example. Otherwise, I'm pleased to here things are off to a good start Dave, now you a benchamrk to judge against. Cheers, |
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Paul White
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