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fatjohnz
Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Posted: 18 June 2007 at 11:39am |
hi, has anyone replaced the mainsheet traveler car with a windward sheeting car? the smallest one i've found is just over 3 inches wide and it looks like it will be too wide to fit in the bench channels. raise the track above the bench tops? my current car is not riding very smooth and i need to replace it so any other suggestions are also welcome. john
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the freak flag is flying
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This is a fairly common upgrade. Mine has a Harken windward sheeting traveller car. Same size as they use on a J24. It fits within the channel but bashes the gel coat abit in the slot when it is slack. |
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fatjohnz
Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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thx, i had a windward sheeting car on my last boat and it was great. I assume you have a 1" (end-up) bend in your track? Also, what kind of main tackle are you running. The original equipment fell apart and what I have on there now feels like wood blocks with hemp rope. john
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Put the hemp in your pipe; not in the fiddle block. I am running a 3:1/6:1 double mainsheet using EasyBlock hardware. Pull one sheet and it is 6:1, pull both together and it is 3:1 for fast sheeting at a mark rounding. Very pleased with this setup. |
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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I switched to a harken windward sheeting car almost as soon as I got my boat. It’s the single most important change you can make in my opinion. I completely removed the old track and hardware. I purchased an aluminum rectangular tube, I think it was 2” X 3” X 1/8” wall. I attached the track to the tube by tapping holes for the mounting screws. The recessed area your current track goes in has a slopped, but flat, surface. I got some UHMW bar stock and fabricated two spacers to go between the recess and the underside of the rectangular tube. Each end of the tube is secured by two through bolts at each end. The bolts go all the way through the tube, the spacer, and the recessed part of the deck. The spacers are sized such that the top of the rectangular tube is just a bit higher than the seat adjacent to the traveler so the traveler car doesn’t have to “fit” inside the recess. I did not roll the traveler, the tube and traveler are both straight. Works great. |
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fatjohnz
Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Interesting. ... I went with the Harken 1" track with the ends bent up an inch. The fasteners have been problematic. The track is meant to be secured direcly to a deck with the fastener heads hidden in a channel and slid in from the ends. Since the track is flying several inches above the channel, I will use threaded rod every 4 inches instead of bolts because 5mm bolts do not come in such long lengths. I will hide the rods inside some nylon spacers. I'm going to use galvinized threaded rod for now but I am hunting for some 316 stainless threaded rod for strength and durability. I am also considering a pair of rods for the center of the track that will go down to the cockpit floor. That might be overkill though. john |
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the freak flag is flying
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fatjohnz
Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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and in conclusion for this installation: It was hard finding 5mm bolts that were long enough but bolts are the right way to go (rather than threaded rod). I drilled 4 holes on each side, 4 inches apart and found that as I tightened the outboard bolts, the track was drawn down to the channel close enough so that the inboard bolts would reach. The bottom of the track is about an inch and a quarter above the channel at the inboard end so it is not flying that high above the channel at all. I put a nut and washer on the 6 inboard bolts (topside). After securing the track from below, i applied caulk/washer/nut to the topside so that the bolts are securly bedded and the track cannot flex downward (which would cause a leak around the bolt hole). john |
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Bill Brock
Skipper Joined: 08 February 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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After struggling with the 2:1 traveler adjustment on my boat in high winds I recently decided to change it to 3:1. Instead of replacing the car and track (which on by boat is Schaeffer and probably the original) I decided to modify the car. I was able to disassemble the car by removing the two stainless screws that hold the assembly together. I then removed the two plastic roller on the car and I plan to mount either a Harken 169 block or a Harken 147, both of which have beckets, to the post. I happened to have a Harken 169 block in my old hardware box and it fits over the post perfectly. I am not sure the swivel is necessary and will probably use the 147. I plan to put a double block on the coaming below the cam cleat. This is a relatively inexpensive way to upgrade the traveler system. The only down side risk is removing the two stainless bolts. One of mine came out OK with a little work and the other snapped off. They are stainless screws in an aluminum base (that has the track rollers) which after twenty years were welded together. I partially reassembled the aluminum base and the stainless piece upon which the traveler adjustment rollers are mounted using the one good screw for alignment. I drilled out the broken bolts using the stainless piece as a guide. I made a small drill guide to fit into the hole so I could drill it dead center while it was still on the track in cockpit. If both of your bolts break you may have to remove the car from the track and put it on a drill press to drill it accurately. I was fortunate that I was able to drill out the bolt with the car on the track by using a "C" clamp to hold it in position. I did not have to take off the track to remove the car. The nuts for the bolts that hold my track are glassed in. |
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Bill, the problem with the original traveler track and car is that the wheels that ride against the track wear out causing a great deal of friction and in heavy air as the load increases it becomes more difficult to use. In hindsight Shaefer travelers turned out to be problem systems as witnessed by the people who relaced their original setups with the newer shaefer system (like I did) and within a year the wheels failed again.
I think the best solution and the easiest is to keep the existing shaefer track... and bolt on top of that the harken low profile track, this way the new track follows the bend that is already there and makes for an easier install with a new car |
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WarBird
Skipper Joined: 25 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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I found a replacement car cheap, $65 (????) in defender or aps or layline. I think the car would last longer on a straight track, no drop in it. The drop loads the car when you ease and have the car above center line. You ease, it doesn't go, you kick it down, major over load as it tightens the main sheet that was already cranked on??? How f**kin' dumb was that????? The car seems ok but I didn't yet get straight track and the car has now been stolen from the boatyard. I'll figure it out again, 3:1 is realeasy on the traveller with a couple of blocks and eyestraps.
my 2 cents |
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frfletch
Commodore Joined: 13 May 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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I just purchased Voila, #166 and the original traveler on it is terrible. Question: Can a windward sheeting traveler be operated from sitting on the rail by a helmsman, or does someone have to get down on the bench seat to adjust and then set the clam cleat located on the car? Everyone seems to like these cars, but I prefer working the traveler from the rail and wonder if it is possible to do conveniently.
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Frank Fletcher
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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The harken weather sheeting car can be adjusted from the weather rail. When the wind is up, i usually sit with my butt as far out as possible and with the traveler between my legs. From this position I can adjust the weather sheeting traveler car quite easilly. This is good since I'm constantly adjusting it.
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I installed the Harken 2746 car and on 53 inches of track bent down at the center 2 inches with high load end bumpers this spring.
The Skipper can adjust fro the rail. But the system is not without issue. And 65$ for a new Schaeffer car sounds like an affordable idea. My advice is DO NOT GET the captive bolt track - it allows for variable spacing. As Fatjohnz pointed out it is very difficult to source 5mm hex heads -- even in major cities, even special order. 2721 track mounts with bolts riding in a channel in the bottom of the track for a clean look and for easy installation. Use the 2721 to bridge cockpits and companionways. SOUNDS nice, looks nice, but it is a pain. Also, 2746 1250 SB CB Windward Sheeting Car is at the edge of load limits. The Mid size car will not fit unless you raise the track to unappealing heights. For lake sailors this works. And has worked well for me and some other Toronto boats. |
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fatjohnz
Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Hi Willi,
As you point out, the 2746 is apparently at the edge of the load limits. My car now moves back and forth as if it were loaded with pebbles rather than bearings. Lemme tell ya, when the car is not gliding well, the windward sheeting feature is practically useless. Although its only $8 for new bearings, the track needs to come out to replace them. ugh. After speaking with the helpful fellows at apsltd.com, I will probably move to a standard midrange car with 3:1 traveler controls going to a turning block above the track then camcleats athwartship at the top edge of the seatback. live and learn, john |
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the freak flag is flying
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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My two cents. The 2746 is at the edge of its load limit according to Harken's "compuspec." But the same program tells you that the 2621 (fiddle block) is fine with a 750-lb safe working load. This would be the block connected to the traveler car and presumably would see the same stresses. I had some problems with the 2746. But I believe it was because over time, salt and grime was getting in the bearings. I've since repaced the bearings and now I wash it down with fresh water once a month. Washing involves blasting water into the bearings while runing the car back and forth. Since then, i've had no problems. I've got a photo of my installation. If anybody's interested in seeing it I can e-mail it to you. |
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