mainsheet

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   Has anyone tried a harken 144 swivel for the mainsheet setup.   http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?sku=144 I currently use a 4:1 but the cleat is tough to release on conditions.  I was considering mounting it to the cockpit floor. I think I can mount it so I can use it both fully crewed and short handed.
I did my first short handed distance race this weekend.  I picked the wrong side of the course Saturday and finished DFL.  Much better Sunday with a 3rd in my division and 6th overall of a 76 boat fleet. 

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Mike V Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Skipper Joined: 19 August 2012 Location: Hamilton On Status: Offline Points: 64	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike V Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: mainsheet Posted: 18 June 2014 at 9:16pm
	Has anyone tried a harken 144 swivel for the mainsheet setup. http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?sku=144 I currently use a 4:1 but the cleat is tough to release on conditions. I was considering mounting it to the cockpit floor. I think I can mount it so I can use it both fully crewed and short handed. I did my first short handed distance race this weekend. I picked the wrong side of the course Saturday and finished DFL. Much better Sunday with a 3rd in my division and 6th overall of a 76 boat fleet.
	Sparkplug Hull #182 NYC

George S. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Crew Joined: 05 December 2002 Location: Vancouver Status: Offline Points: 43	Post Options Post Reply Quote George S. Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 June 2014 at 6:50pm
	I think Frank's Voila #166 has converted to this system I'll forward this to him for an answer George WarBird

Bill Layton Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bill Layton Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 June 2014 at 7:02pm
	I can't see how that would work. Particularly on the cockpit floor. The original schaffer worked fine so do similar type fiddle/becket/cam cleats mounted on the traveler car.

frfletch Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 13 May 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 365	Post Options Post Reply Quote frfletch Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 June 2014 at 12:29am
	Voila is running such a swivel on a 3:1 and 6:1 double ended mainsheet. The swivel is like the one in the picture, but with two cam cleats on top instead of one. My advice would be to use the single and set it up 1:5. I have set up Vivace the same way, but she is on a 4:1. We don't mount the swivel on the cockpit floor. You will never be able to set the sheet in the cleat at that angle. I mounted a 3/8" aluminum plate to the bottom of the mainsheet track with a pedestal toward the front and mounted the swivel on that. For us, we would not feel comfortable racing the Laser any other way in medium to heavy air. We found that the conventional set up with the mainsheet cleat on the traveler made it difficult to release the mainsheet if the traveler had been let down to leeward. It was very dangerous is close port/starboard approaches. If you have to duck, one simply must be able to dump the main or the boat will T bone the starboard tacker. Of course, every system has a trade-off. Ours is that when the traveler is at either extremity on its track, the center position of the swivel prevents the boom from achieving maximum travel compared to the conventional sheeting as Bill uses. The second issue is when in cruising mode, with the conventional sheeting one can just unclip it, move it to the rail, and take the boom and sheet out of the cockpit. Only three screws hold the plate to the track, but unless one removes the swivel, plate, and pedestal, it does obstruct the cockpit area when cruising. If you send your email address, I can send you a photo of our arrangement. One can make do with anything, but we prefer this system.

frfletch Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 13 May 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 365	Post Options Post Reply Quote frfletch Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 June 2014 at 1:01am
	One more idea on this subject: There are plenty of Laser 28 owners who believe that the Harken Windward-sheeting traveler system is the single best investment they ever made for their boats. I gave it consideration, but felt that the cam cleat angle was going to be difficult to set when the car was up to windward. The way we sail our boat now, if using our biggest headsail, the traveler is far to windward of center and I thought the angle from the position of the trimmer, plus the proximity of the back rest and cowling in the cockpit, was going to make it difficult to set. On the other hand, I never head of anyone complaining about that before. One other observation we have found with mainsheet traveler systems on the Laser: Like others, we bolted a Harket flat track on top of the Shaefer and then went to a mid-size Harken car. In that year, the car was set up for a 3:1 system to operate the traveler. When we did Vivace, the newer cars were set up 4:1 which we thought was going to be nice. Actually, the 4:1 does not work nicely at all. If the line is large enough to be easy on the hand, then there is too much friction in the 4:1 system for the car to easily be let down to leeward. The increased friction on the 4:1 actually makes it even more difficult to get back to windward than the 3:1 also because of the added friction. Just sayin…… On George's boat, Warbird, we are still using the original Shaefer which was a 2:1. Very tough! We modified it by using twin blocks on he side of the cockpit, and then terminating the traveler line on the upward cleat of the Shaefer car (where the mainsheet attaches. A little bowline or figure 8 there, led to the side of the cockpit block #1, back to the pulley on the car, then return to the #2 block on the cockpit wall and into the cleat. 3:1 on the cheap! Also, some Lasers were set up with the termination of the traveler through a hole in the block that supports the track next to the laserette door and this restricted the travel. Terminated on the car one gets full travel.

George S. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Crew Joined: 05 December 2002 Location: Vancouver Status: Offline Points: 43	Post Options Post Reply Quote George S. Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 June 2014 at 5:11pm
	Voila & WarBird sit next to each other and Frank & I not only sail against each other but pitch in and crew (main trim) for each other when needed so we are good examples of what works here...... and both systems work. The existing L28 car and track with a Harken block that is removable from the car suits me just fine. It is simple, and I prefer to get the boom away from the cockpit when at rest for easier access back and forth. I just finished a 2 day single handed race and never had a problem releasing the mainsheet and the second day was 16 true and gusting with the lapper and full main. Traveller was down, main bladed out and the cam cleat on the Harken block was facing down which made for easier release from the high side rail, while driving. Most of the gusts where handled by traveller alone with only a few needing mainsheet release. Dry lubing the track often pays off here. Yes, in tight port/starboard windy conditions it can be tricky to get that mainsheet released, but... I try not to push the envelope when sailing in those conditions. Tack early or duck early. You will never lose as much by ducking VS a crash tack and getting rolled or fowling the other boat and doing a 720 !!! cheers, George WarBird

Mike V Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Skipper Joined: 19 August 2012 Location: Hamilton On Status: Offline Points: 64	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike V Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 June 2014 at 9:42pm
	I like the idea of a constant angle for the cleat. That is my main reason for the change. I race on a J 24 and it is the only thing that I like over my Laser, short of the fleet sizes. I think I am going to give it a try. I will post some pictures when I am done. Thanks for the input.
	Sparkplug Hull #182 NYC