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Foghorn View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 August 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
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Points: 120 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foghorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rudder Bushings
    Posted: 31 July 2024 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by fatjohnz fatjohnz wrote:

You've got it right Geoff.
The rudder shaft is stainless steel and embedded into the rudder. If you take that bolt out, be ready to catch the rudder; it doesn't float.
The play comes from wear in the aluminum cap (pictured) because the SS bolts have worn the original holes.
I've tried some flexible bushings but they didn't hold. I think the prescribed fix is to drill the aluminum and insert hard bushings.
The nylon bushing you have in the pic adjusts the vertical play between the cap and housing.

As you mention, the bolt holes in the casting tend to become oblong over time. My solution was to drill and tap the aft side of the rudder casting for a 5/16" bolt (with the casting removed) and then use a bolt as an adjuster to take out the play along with a nut to lock the bolt. See pic below from an overhead perspective.

L28 Rudder Casting Adjuster
Paul White
Decompression
CAN 214
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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 August 2006
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Points: 304 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2024 at 1:49pm
Hi Geoff,
I did not size a hard bushing yet. I need to inspect everything; probably this fall. The bolt needs to fit snug in the shaft and the bushing. The hole through the cap for the bushings should probably be done in a drill to keep the tightest tolerances.
js
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Geoff Coke View Drop Down
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Joined: 18 October 2018
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Points: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Geoff Coke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2024 at 11:42pm
Thank you

I saw your Tiller Play post and was hoping the bushing you specified there worked.  Do you have any recommendations on the bushing that should be used?

Heading to the boat tomorrow and will check for the other "play" that was discussed (horizontal and vertical).
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Joined: 05 August 2006
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Points: 304 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2024 at 9:04pm
You've got it right Geoff.
The rudder shaft is stainless steel and embedded into the rudder. If you take that bolt out, be ready to catch the rudder; it doesn't float.
The play comes from wear in the aluminum cap (pictured) because the SS bolts have worn the original holes.
I've tried some flexible bushings but they didn't hold. I think the prescribed fix is to drill the aluminum and insert hard bushings.
The nylon bushing you have in the pic adjusts the vertical play between the cap and housing.
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Geoff Coke View Drop Down
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Joined: 18 October 2018
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Points: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Geoff Coke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2024 at 12:08am
Was anchored in rougher weather this last week and noticed I had significant tiller/rudder play that I would like to fix.  Read a number of posts on the forum such as:
 - Rudder Solutions
 - Tiller Play
 - Rudder Ring
 - Rudder
 - Removing Rudder in Water

Lots of great information but I still don't fully understand how the tiller and rudder are assembled.  Is it the one (1) through bolt the only thing holding them together?


 (borrowed photo)


Edited by Geoff Coke - 30 July 2024 at 12:10am
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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Points: 304 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 10:11am
Hi Bill, Your link takes me to some older rudder pics you shared but I don't see the bushings you are referencing FYI, john
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WJRyan View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 February 2008
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Points: 230 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJRyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 7:38am
Sorry Jamie for delay, couldn't find where I had stored them!  Have 2 really thin, 1 a little thicker, 3 of the same and 1 large that could be cut down.  Images (2 Items) and I can measure if you need.
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155
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Jamie View Drop Down
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Points: 48 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 11:18am
Dropped the rudder and found a lot of dried up grease.

I wound up cleaning the shaft and o-ring and reassembled without any grease. 

We'll see how this lasts.  The rudder is definitely less stiff...but still is more stiff than I expected (i have only owned the boat 3 years so not sure what it is supposed to feel like).  I also lighly sanded the shaft and inside of the 2 sleeves (with 400 grit).    

The previous owner had used silicone to secure the lower sleeve into the housing.  I removed all the silicone and re-installed without it.  It is just floating in the housing now.
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Joined: 06 June 2018
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Points: 48 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2022 at 1:11pm
Thanks Everyone,

I will drop rudder this weekend and see if I need rings.  

I don't have a place with a drop off, so I am planning on digging a hole under the rudder to accommodate.  
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WJRyan View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 February 2008
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Points: 230 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJRyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2022 at 1:01pm
Hi Jamie, 

Yes, I do have some rings tho the ones I have are for the top post (think bushings) and I might have an extra for the rudder/hull spacer - need to go take a look in my boxes of boat stuff I don't throw away.  I'll go look and get back to you.  

Dropping the rudder isn't a hard thing but you need to have lots of space to drop it down, remember the rudder post is a part of the unit so add that length to the rudder.  If you can find a drop off where you can back the trailer to and then drop it, that'll help.  Have someone ready to hold and/or have a holder in place when you loosen the bolts at the top.

Cleaning is easy and I also recommend cleaning the inner tube the rudder post fits within.

Shared lesson learned, take a picture of how the tiller attaches to the rudder post, this is the wrong way in pictures 2 Items that I figured out after I had launched and had started sailing towards my docks!
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155
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fatjohnz View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 August 2006
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Points: 304 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatjohnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2022 at 12:13pm
I believe the 'sleeve' you reference is the fiberglass column that holds the rudder post. I would just run a cleaning rag thru it to make sure it's clear.
You should have nylon ring(s) under the cap to reduce wear and keep the rudder a little closer to the hull. I could take a measurement on the ring I have.
Hopefully your binding is not being caused by a bent rudder post. Unfortunately, I have experience with a bent rudder post.
John
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Jamie View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 June 2018
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Points: 48 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2022 at 11:43am
Hi Bill,

My rudder is very sticky so I am going to drop the rudder this weekend before I launch the boat.   Denise at Evolution told me that there is a sleeve around the rudder post that get's gunked up and needs to be cleaned.  I was looking at your pics from this forum post and I realized that I dont have a teflon ring on my rudder in between the top of the rudder and the hull like is shown in one of your pictures. 

I may need to replace the top ring and add the ring between the rudder and hull.  Do you still have rings available?  Also, have you dropped the rudder and cleaned the teflon sleeve that Denise indicated to me?

Thanks,
Jamie Holley
Manchester, MA
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Joined: 12 February 2008
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Points: 230 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJRyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2021 at 7:03am
Hi John,

I assume you are talking about the plastic bushings that go on top of the rudder post and the spacer between hull and rudder.  I had several made for me from a local shop of different widths (couple of pics here (https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlMdboNP9uz7guEx9VeaJpXNKVdWgA?e=0hQEHZ). For me I had one on top (https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlMdboNP9uz7guEyThMIXfzKJXNDPQ?e=waHS4G) and then the one below (https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlMdboNP9uz7goJ8emfPQuTm6vAAaQ).

I have several "in stock" if you can't find anyone near you to make these, let me know.  - bill
Bill Ryan,

Room4Crew, #155
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John Mills View Drop Down
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Points: 122 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Mills Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2021 at 4:57pm
Has anyone replaced the rudder bushings ? How do they come out and any tip on where to buy some ? 
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