When too reef

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   From a UK (IRC) perspective....we don't use a genoa for a rating benefit and because we / I think it adds little apart from in the really light stuff. We use a 105% (No. 3) headsail for everything but will select a smaller headsail (no. 4) at 18-20 knots. Mainsail, we'll probably not reef at all and just flatten when the wind is blowing hard. The competitors will tell you they can see the banknotes flying off the sail as it flogs. Problem is too much belly in the sail when reefed upwind and wanting to shake it out downwind. Full backstay / twisting and a flat tight kevlar mainsail de-powers better than the reef. But it's always a discussion point. We've sailed in 40+ knots like this. It's all about crew weight on the rail though, we'll sail with 6 in heavy weather.

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jez rees Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Rookie Joined: 25 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 43	Post Options Post Reply Quote jez rees Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: When too reef Posted: 04 December 2015 at 10:44pm
	From a UK (IRC) perspective....we don't use a genoa for a rating benefit and because we / I think it adds little apart from in the really light stuff. We use a 105% (No. 3) headsail for everything but will select a smaller headsail (no. 4) at 18-20 knots. Mainsail, we'll probably not reef at all and just flatten when the wind is blowing hard. The competitors will tell you they can see the banknotes flying off the sail as it flogs. Problem is too much belly in the sail when reefed upwind and wanting to shake it out downwind. Full backstay / twisting and a flat tight kevlar mainsail de-powers better than the reef. But it's always a discussion point. We've sailed in 40+ knots like this. It's all about crew weight on the rail though, we'll sail with 6 in heavy weather.

WarBird Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Skipper Joined: 25 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 92	Post Options Post Reply Quote WarBird Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2015 at 11:13am
	I transitioned from the Laser 28 to a B-32. Way different boats I know, the B32 is really powered up with SA/D of ~32. This has caused my crew to be more ontop of things and we have added a few crew too. We have found on the B32 that we go to a #3 really early to keep the boat flat. It took us 2-3 years to really get into the "Go small early" with regards to the headsail and keeping the boat flat. We have gotten very fast due to this I believe. I remember my racing the Laser28 and "just dealing with" being a little over powered some times and letting more main flog (or all) to keep the jib pulling. All those times i was over powered we placed poorly. It is really important to keep the boat flat, the keel and rudder working and sail area pulling you forward not over. If the helm loads up and you have done all the trim adjustments you know it is time to reduce sail. My opinion.

khardy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132	Post Options Post Reply Quote khardy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 June 2015 at 2:04pm
	For Racing: I go to lapper at 12 to 14. I've never sailed with any headsail smaller than the lapper and I've been out in 25 that way with excellent results. I've never reefed the main during a race. For non racing, I once blasted down the bay with my wife only; 25+ - no spin, lapper up, and a double reefed main. We exceeded 10-kts several times. Excellent ride.

Winner Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 07 September 2011 Status: Offline Points: 222	Post Options Post Reply Quote Winner Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 June 2015 at 1:43pm
	My experience with the Laser is only 3 years so take this with a grain of salt. I don't have crew limits sailing under PHRF and I find that with enough crew on the rail (about 4-5 plus the two in the cockpit so 7 total) I can carry the genoa up to about 14 knots. I have been experimenting with the mainsail and have yet to reach definitive conclusions. I know the general consensus as Bill says above is to put in reef 1 at 20 knots, but I find that I often feel the need to reef in a bit sooner than that. With the lapper hoisted up front, I find that at about 17+ knots I'm wanting to reef. I'm not sure if this is just my inexperience as helmsman. I note Bill mentions dropping to the working jib before reefing the main and to be honest I've never tried this combo. Last night we had 18-23 knots of sustained wind in our race with 3-4 foot steep pitch swells. We were sailing for the first while with lapper and two reefs but am now wondering if a working jib/1 reef combo would have been better. The boat felt balanced (not much weather helm) but the helm had little feel and at times we were heeled over so much I doubt I had much rudder purchase in the water. Later the wind dropped to a stable 17 knots and we did the last upwind leg with lapper/full main (we actually forgot to get the reefs back in the main before the leeward mark). The boat handled well (or no worse than it was with two reefs) but we actually were slower on GPS and I think were making more leeway, because we lost ground to the fleet on the last leg and ended up finishing 5th out of 7 in our fleet. Just my 2 cents. I still have lots to learn!
	Chris Eclipse #240 Thunder Bay, ON

Bill Layton Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bill Layton Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 June 2015 at 8:17am
	approx. mid track

fatjohnz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304	Post Options Post Reply Quote fatjohnz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 June 2015 at 8:02am
	Hey Bill, When you switch to the w-jib, where do you lead the clew?

Bill Layton Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bill Layton Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 June 2015 at 7:59am
	I switch down from Genoa to lapper at about 9 knots. I switch down from the Lapper to the W-Jib at about 18-19 knots... all in true wind. I can carry a full main until 24 true however I usually reef by 20. The 2nd reef I put in at 25 and the chute goes up in everything.

fatjohnz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304	Post Options Post Reply Quote fatjohnz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 June 2015 at 7:42am
	For me, it's earlier than I think. At a recent regatta I was sailing on lapper and full main as the afternoon wind built to whitecaps. The boat was handling pretty good but as we rounded the windward mark, there was too much pressure, and as I tried to drive down, the boat tried to round up. We ended up shooting out of the mark on a reach and fouling the windward boat. Note to self: Test to make sure you can jibe under control before the race. js

Mike V Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Skipper Joined: 19 August 2012 Location: Hamilton On Status: Offline Points: 64	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike V Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 June 2015 at 10:25pm
	At what wind speed does everyone start to change sails from the genoa and full main down to the the working jib and two reefs. I am just looking for a quick guide. I usually just wing it but it would be nice to have a little guideline. Thanks
	Sparkplug Hull #182 NYC