Preventative Maintenance Tip for Cooling System |
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Winner
Commodore Joined: 07 September 2011 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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Posted: 19 June 2017 at 10:00am |
Bill, I'm wondering if you have noticed any problems with any of the plastic, rubber or nylon components of the engine system with using plumbing antifreeze? Water strainer, impeller, etc?
The reason I ask is because Practical Sailor magazine has run tests and concluded that while propylene glycol is safer for the environment (and necessary in any potable water system as an antifreeze) it is more harmful to rubber, plastic and nylon. So for now I continue to use ethylene glycol in the engine, but am careful to dispose of it properly in the spring. To be honest, even though they say that propylene glycol is "safe for the environment", I would still dispose of it in the hazardous waste area of our boatyard, and never dump it directly overboard, as I've seen many boat owners do.
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Chris
Eclipse #240 Thunder Bay, ON |
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Update to all this...
I rebuilt my motor in 1990 due mostly to some excessive oil leaking from the bottom crankcase cover. So I did take apart the water cooling pipe where the sediment collects on the bottom of the head and it was nearly plugged... yet the engine was only 4 years old at that point. So last week I took the cooling hose off that pipe and attached a longer one so I could blow thru it and it was perfectly clear no obstructions at all. I didn't want to overheat my cylinder head and warp it so figured I needed to find out. In hindsight it becomes clearer. Original winterizing method from the manual was to drain the engine which most of us did and this caused the cylinder and head to remain dry for the layup period and this caused the cast iron surfaces to rust inside . Then the rust would collect at the lowest point on the engine (which is that cooling pipe attachment at the bottom of the head) eventually it would become blocked as mine nearly did at the age of 4 years old. So as time went on the head would overheat and warp and blow the head gasket and when rebuilding it we would find that clogged cooling pipe and clean it out like I did in 1990 on my engine. Since then I've used antifreeze to winterize my engine so the inside cast iron never rusted. I started this in 1990 after my rebuild. Then around the year 2000 I started using plumbing antifreeze because it's better for the environment and it's less expensive. But then we wondered if it would prevent rust from forming because it's not automotive antifreeze. Well It's been 17 years winterizing with plumbing antifreeze and that cooling pipe blows thru like it's brand new so I believe the fact the cooling passages are filled with any liquid will stop it from rusting. It must be this way because during the summer for 6 months it's just fresh water that in there. So the the lesson learned is 1.) Test that cooling pipe by trying to blow thru it to see if it's blocked. 2.) once it's clean be sure to use plumbing antifreeze to winterize the engine. 3.)Never drain the cooling system.
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Winner
Commodore Joined: 07 September 2011 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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Ok I finally got the thermostat installed. Mine is the two lead version of what John listed earlier in this thread.
I installed one lead directly to the starboard side engine block via a threaded plug that was already machined. Easy. The second lead was trickier. I wanted it directly underneath the plastic muffler where water and exhaust mix, since I previously had a water starvation situation that melted a hole in the plastic. Not fun, especially once water flow is restored! Anyway I had to use a large hose clamp and a fair bit of contortionist skills to get it in place, but it worked. I wired it into the same line I have for my engine RPM gauge, so the display works only when engine running or powered up (turn key one click to right) as I see no need to waste battery power monitoring engine temp otherwise. So far the highest number I've recored on the engine block is 156 degrees which occurred when throttling back after 45 minutes of motoring. The muffler temp typically runs about 80 degrees. |
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Chris
Eclipse #240 Thunder Bay, ON |
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Even if I could give you a number you it wouldn't help. What it means is that you need to be aware of this and check your oil more frequently and remember when you motored with heel you have to check. Obviously serious angles will affect you more. So you can observe what happens. It's a real problem and it happen with less heel than you think.
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John Mills
Commodore Joined: 01 February 2016 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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How much heel Bill and does it mater which way ? I have heard this before but had no problems at all , mind you I shut the engine off as soon as I can most days, no need for an engine if there is enough wind to heel the boat . I understand some year engines were worse than others too . The reason I ask is if I ever do any long distance races and need to charge the battery while underway .
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Another thing we learned over time is never to motor sail with any heel. If you do the BUKH is known to blow it's oil out thru the oil fill/vent cap all over the engine compartment. I see this all the time. Since the engine only hold 1.3 Litres of oil it empties very quickly and you fry your engine. You can see in some boats the engine compartment has what can be described as oil sprayed all over it. This is a good example of this. This happened to me several times before I figured out what was happening.
Edited by Bill Layton - 01 November 2016 at 8:52am |
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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It's the usual story... if everyone read their manual they would know that they are not supposed to leave the key in the off position. In hindsight I would say only the small minority read the manual.
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John Mills
Commodore Joined: 01 February 2016 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Thanks Bill , I probably will do both . Seems a pretty silly error on Bukh's part.
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Yes a boat burned to the waterline and sank in FL because of this. I've seen burnt wiring harnesses to engine more than once.
I installed a 5 amp fuse holder and my worries are over. I put it behind the ignition panel, easy to do. It's the black wire to the fuel shut off solenoid so yeah a button is fine too, thats good.
For those who had fried their "shut off solenoid" replacement was always very pricey, so we ran a cord from the fuel shut off lever to under the ignition panel. Sounds like you are having fun. Keep up the good work! |
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John Mills
Commodore Joined: 01 February 2016 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Motor has more now , starts with the flick of a key . Question , the key shut off can accidentally be left on burning it out I am told , was thinking of just moving it to a button beside the key so you can not accidentally leave it on . Has anyone done this ? As to the boat , the whole boat seems never used , but really really dirty . All cleaned now and largely restored - all painted and varnished down below . Tons of maintenance done to it . Lots of stuff that would have broken if he used it -replaced prop , all the clutch handles , all the lights upgraded to LED ,serviced all winches , new inboard tracks , glassed hull at chain plates , beam of destiny , the hull gasket for the sail drive, all new instruments and new slides for companion way , new gasket for hatch , re bed everything (no more leaks) , pulled the fuel tank and dumped out the strange color fuel, restored the trailer and moved the boat forward on it too and a few neat toys like a below deck auto-helm . That's the short version of the list Painting the engine and pulling the holding tank for cleaning this winter. Love this boat , as you probably know I got a smoking great deal on it and this one as you know was never used so its like new , but I put a ton of money in and even more time. Kind of like a barn find on a classic car , sure it was never used but you had better go over absolutely everything before you drive it and be prepared to replace lots of plastic bits .
Edited by John Mills - 30 October 2016 at 10:41am |
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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The original owner of that boat never used it.... I doubt that engine has more than 20 hours on it!
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John Mills
Commodore Joined: 01 February 2016 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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I take it the factory alarm did not go off ? I pulled that cooling pipe yesterday and mine was perfectly clean . I suppose the old owner must have done it .
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fatjohnz
Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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You guys saved my butt. Thanks.
I'm heading out for a week long racing/cruise tomorrow and I pulled the lower cooling pipe this past weekend. It was clogged with sediment. I'm lucky the engine hasn't blown. Thanks for your proactive postings as always, js |
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Winner
Commodore Joined: 07 September 2011 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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I ordered the dual sensor you mentioned above. I will attach one sensor to the engine block and the other I think I will attach to the base of the muffler (using a large stainless hose clamp), directly underneath the exhaust inlet as in a water-starvation situation, this is where it will get hot/melt first. I'll report back once I have it installed and have an idea of normative values.
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Chris
Eclipse #240 Thunder Bay, ON |
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John Mills
Commodore Joined: 01 February 2016 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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The temp alarm is able to have two temp sensors with different set points . you can put one on the exhaust and set it for a different temp to alarm at . Going to do that myself . You can order it with both sensors and I am regretting not doing that , now I have to order it separately . The alarm is for cars and set up so you can monitor the temp of your transmission too . Seems no reason we can not monitor sense the exhaust temp with it instead.
I believe it will cycle back and forth displaying the two temps alternately. So what I have is I am not sensing the water temp, I am sensing the block temp , the factory switch senses the water temp and if you have flow at the sensor but a blockage in the block it will not go off near as I can tell . Mine senses the temperature of the cast cylinder block . I will add the exhaust sensor this winter .
Edited by John Mills - 25 June 2016 at 10:55am |
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Winner
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Thinking more about my last post, I'm not sure if a temp gauge mounted to the engine block will help with a water blockage situation. In this instance, hot exhaust is directly in contact with the plastic (in most L28's) muffler which will melt the muffler before the engine block reaches overheating temperature.
What would be best is some sort of water flow meter, or temp gauge in the exhaust pipe itself, in combination with an engine block temp gauge. This combination will best cover instances of both engine block overheating (due for example to blocked lower passages) and lack of water flow through the cooling system.
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Chris
Eclipse #240 Thunder Bay, ON |
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Winner
Commodore Joined: 07 September 2011 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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In my instance, as Bill mentioned, the alarm did go off in time to warn me of a problem. However I had another instance years ago where a complete water blockage eliminated all water flow through the engine and by the time I realized, the hot exhaust had melted a hole in the plastic muffler. I was fortunate the head did not warp. Yes this was a rookie mistake (I had bought the boat only one week prior), but in this instance, the engine overheat alarm did not trigger in time.
For $100, John's solution seems quite reasonable as an extra protection and I really like the ability to see the actual temp.
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Chris
Eclipse #240 Thunder Bay, ON |
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John Mills
Commodore Joined: 01 February 2016 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Update on the aftermarket alarm . I bolted the sensor to a threaded hole on the block next to what appears to be a frost plug starboard side . It senses the cylinder block temp not water temp while the factory alarm senses water temp . The display is right above the Bukh engine panel, bright and easy to read . Alarm set point is adjustable and alarm has the option to monitor oil pressure too (have to buy the kit) . I now have two alarms , the factory one and a back up totally separate . Engine runs at 140- 165 deg depending on load , watching it it appears you can see the thermostat open and close as the temp goes up and down , after 5 hours of motoring fairly hard about 151 deg and actually spikes to the max when you go to idle after motoring hard . I set the alarm to go off at 170 deg .
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John Mills
Commodore Joined: 01 February 2016 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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The Gauge I ordered is made in Australia on Ebay "DIGITAL TEMPERATURE GAUGE with AUDIBLE ALARM Engine Guard EG01/1 BOLT-ON SENSOR"
$78 bucks US , free shipping . Does not replace the sensor in engine but instead adds a sensor bolted onto the block to sense block temp , not water temp . I understand the engine can over heat if a passage gets blocked while still pumping nice cool water out back . This should catch that while giving me a temperature gauge . I will report if it seems to work
Edited by John Mills - 30 May 2016 at 11:12pm |
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John Mills
Commodore Joined: 01 February 2016 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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I will be taking mine apart and cleaning , but truth be told I do not trust the 30 year old alarm , after all we would not have boats with warped heads if the alarm always worked in time . Given mine starts with the flick of a key I would hate to have to rebuild it .
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