Boom kicker? |
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Posted: 21 July 2013 at 10:16pm |
No it does not. We drill and tap holes near the bottom for the L28
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Mike V
Skipper Joined: 19 August 2012 Location: Hamilton On Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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I just picked up a boom kicker. Does the slug slide past he gooseneck? I gave it a quick try and it stopped at the gooseneck fitting
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WJRyan
Commodore Joined: 12 February 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Got it, will go measure the forestay length again and loosen up the rig and see what we get. Any idea on the main maker? Logo is kinda like 2 right angle triangles with one pointing up and the other down , one on top of the other. Although with this advice I may try that North main again!
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Bill Ryan,
Room4Crew, #155 |
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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This is quite common with with a boom kicker. The object isn't to keep the boom level with the water. It is as it always is... to maintain correct leech tension. Installing a kicker changes this aspect because it always lifts the boom higher than is needed. The result of this is the very bottom of the leech opens up, has too much twist and you can get a wrinkle radiating from the bottom batten. Frank may be correct in that the mast isn't tuned correctly.
However if mainsheet or vang tension make it look normal again then your just getting used to your kicker. Look at the shape of your leech.... particularly the bottom of the leech. When the kicker is too high the bottom of the leach opens up and some distortion occurs. Tighten the vang while you are watching the bottom of your leech and see it change. The object of the kicker is so the weight of the boom doesn't put too much tension on the leech in light conditions, and it prevents the boom from falling on the deck when releasing the main halyard. Play with this a little and you will see the difference.
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frfletch
Commodore Joined: 13 May 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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You don't require that much tension in the shrouds. The tension differential between uppers and lowers is strictly guided by the shape of your main. Most contributions regarding rig tuning on this site are from sailors who are using the same, or similar, sails as evolved from Quantum to Evolution servicing the one-design fleet most participated in between Toronto and Montreal. I have Quantum sails from the Vancouver loft and they are totally different and so require a different rig tune. However the cut of the main sail is the most determining factor in shroud tension and pre-bend. Reference my previous post.
If you are racing your boat, I would increase your mast rake to a forestay length of not less that 32'-7". Play with it. Change it between races. Try setting it back even further and see how it feels, how it points and moves upwind. Play with it. Have some fun. You will learn from experimenting. If you get a new main from Denise, then she or Bill can dial you in pretty close. Otherwise,set the rig to your racing main. |
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WJRyan
Commodore Joined: 12 February 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Hmmm, so I have a dacron main that came with the boat, it is not a North, it has 2 triangles as a logo near the cunningham grommet. One trianle faces down (like a keel) while th eother points up diagonally (like a main sail). Loose foot and has slides to go up the mast. NOt sure if that makes a difference but forestay length is 32', 6 1/2" adn t my uppers are 34 while the lowers are 30 (loos 2 gauge). So you think I should loosen them that much? I have a North main as well, made of kevlar (yellow) that I have never been able to make go fast, could this bee my problem with that one as well?
I am saving up fo r a new main, bought a #1 last year from Bill & Denise and love it. Main is next..... :)bill
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Bill Ryan,
Room4Crew, #155 |
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frfletch
Commodore Joined: 13 May 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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Bill, that krinkle will likely have more to do with the combination of the cut of your main (particularly luff curve) and the shape (pre-bend) in your mast. If you have a flat cut main, or one with little luff curve cut into it combined with substantial pre-bend such as 32 uppers and 27 lowers, then you are going to have diagnal wrinkles showing from the luff (likely near the battens). Boom angle won't effect this much.
You can sort of eyeball luff curve of your main by spreading it on the ground and pulling hard outwardly on all three corners. While this is being done, sight down the luff and try to spread the luff out and compare it to what a straight line might look like if drawn or sited between the head grommet and the tack grommet. If the convex curve of the sail is less than the bend in your mast, you will be pulling some of the draft (power) out of the main and also creating wrinkles from the luff. Solution will be a straighter mast with say something closer to 30-29 on the shrouds or whatever it takes to make the mainsail work. An advantage of using sails from a loft that has been cutting sails for the other Lasers, such as Denise at Evolution, is that rig settings for that cut are already known. Unless those sails or truly copied by some other sail maker, then one is on his own in finding out how the rig should be set up. Pre-bend is all relavent to main luff curve and desired forestay tension. Rake relates to setting the the average Center Of Effort (COE) in the main and headsail combined, in relation to the Center of Lateral Resistance CLR) created by the underwater foils (keel and rudder). The CLR on all Lasers is going to be the same, but the COE is going to vary from one boat to another owing to the cut of their sails and the age of their sails, because the draft moves aft in an older sail. It sounds to me that your mast has to much curve compared to your main. Try the mast a bit straighter. Se if you can achieve a nicer relationship between mast bend and luff curve. |
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WJRyan
Commodore Joined: 12 February 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Thank you all again, all looks good and there is always bend in it. I "assume" (ruh roh!) that the intent is to keep the boom level at all times. We had a light wind over the weekend (104F here - more current than wind but I digress!) and the mainsail had a extra "crinkle around the bottom batten - I pulled the boom down a little (and made it level to water)and it seemed to go away however always ready to learn from everyone here! :)bill
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Bill Ryan,
Room4Crew, #155 |
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Bill Layton
Commodore Joined: 15 September 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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The best way to look at how the kicker is working... is that when used either upwind, reaching or on a run the rod should have a bend in it. Which means your supposed to have vang on all the time to keep your boom in the correct position. If it doesn't have a bend in it and it sits straight then you have to move the end on the boom further fwd to achieve this.
Edited by Bill Layton - 19 June 2012 at 8:34am |
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WJRyan
Commodore Joined: 12 February 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Directions were awesome, install went pretty good but I am not sure the placement is "right". When the main is flaked and the vang is loose, main is not cleated the boom should be ~horizontal to the water - right? When I followed your steps JR Iit seems that at rest mine is a little "up", not much but a little. Racing Wed so any suggestions are most welcome! :)bill
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Bill Ryan,
Room4Crew, #155 |
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WJRyan
Commodore Joined: 12 February 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Thank you all - this helps a lot (I do read the directions and hate to reinvent wheeels!) and I appreciate the collective wisdom the group. You folks rock!! :)bill
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Bill Ryan,
Room4Crew, #155 |
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fatjohnz
Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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Thanks for the pics Jez.
Here's how I did the installation Bill: (1) There is a boomkicker piece that installs in the track slide at the mast base. I found the mast track to be too narrow to accept the slug screws. I cleared the slot using a drill and graduating the bit sizes to roto the slot until the slug screws would fit. (2) I hoisted the main at the dock and put a line from the boom end to the backstay and lifted the boom till the main leech was not holding the weight of the boom. (3) After dropping the main and hooking the boom kicker to the mast base, I held the boom attachment of the boom kicker to the bottom of the boom and pushed on the fiberglass assembly until the weight of the boom had been lifted from the line that was holding the boom end. I marked the location of the boomkicker hardware. (4) Then you drill and tap the holes in the bottom of the boom for the boomkicker hardware. Just tap enough to get the threads etched into the aluminum. This will leave a little extra meat for the machine screw to bite in to. js p.s. There is a pin stop in the kicker and I think its set to middle of the road by default. So if you end up unsure if you mounted it with correct tension, you can always adjust the stop pin to change the height. |
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jez rees
Rookie Joined: 25 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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If it's any good to you I put a couple of photos of our boomkicker here:
http://farroutlaser28.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/boomkicker.html Cheers, Jez |
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WJRyan
Commodore Joined: 12 February 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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I would like to take you up on that picture offer FJ, going to take a look at installing this over the next week or so and your experience is welcome to guide me! Thank you, :)bill
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Bill Ryan,
Room4Crew, #155 |
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WJRyan
Commodore Joined: 12 February 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Thanks everyone for your guidacne, have a chance to get this at $175 so I will add on this psring. Love to see pics John and any tips ojn installing are always welcomed! :)bill
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Bill Ryan,
Room4Crew, #155 |
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Jon167
Skipper Joined: 14 April 2011 Location: Webster NY Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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I installed one last year, $225 new, nice addition........
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Jon
Pandora Hull#167 Lake Ontario SBYC Past President LYRA |
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fatjohnz
Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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that would do it. it went on pretty easy for me. lmk if you need some pics. john
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WJRyan
Commodore Joined: 12 February 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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The model I have the chance to pick up (guy bought it 2 years ago and then sold the boat!) is a Boom kicker model K1000 - looks like it would fit on the Laser - thoughts? I appreciate your guidance gents! :)bill
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Bill Ryan,
Room4Crew, #155 |
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a boomkicker is essential for good sail shape in light air
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fatjohnz
Commodore Joined: 05 August 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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i got one this past summer. it helps keep the leech open and steady in light air. its another tool that helps with subtle adjustments. so if you are not able to make the shape you want and this might help... its worth it and i'm glad i installed mine. did i win more races after installing it? doubtful, john
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