Ballast for Upwind performance? |
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murph
Admin Group Joined: 25 January 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: 05 April 2009 at 11:26pm |
Quote: Originally posted by JFG104 on 19 March 2009 Yes I can confirm all L28 masts are in the exact same location without question. Forestay lengths may not be all exactly the same but everything else is |
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jez rees
Rookie Joined: 25 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Farr Out's mast tuned in lovely. 9.932 forestay length, 32 uppers, 29 lowers.
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JFG104
Rookie Joined: 15 March 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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I've heard that mast foot on early models was not at same location as later models. Can anyone confirm this? JF
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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For what it's worth, the north tuning guide follows the post i provided the link to. No telling why the hood guide is diffferent.
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jez rees
Rookie Joined: 25 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Yeah that kinda confirms the dimension for the forestay length pin to pin that we're working on, I had to put an extra 2 inch long cleats on the turnbuckle to get there though. I just hope that our mast foot is in the same place as everyone else's. We have a J measurement of 2.95 so that checks out.
It's interesting that the Hood tuning guide recommends 1490lb tension on the uppers which equates to 38 loos gauge compared to the 32 recommended by that post. It'll all become clear! |
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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The best advice i've seen on tuing is on this fourm at the following link: Note that the measurements for forestay length is measured "pin to pin" and not the length of the forestay. |
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jez rees
Rookie Joined: 25 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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As an update - It appears that our No. 3 headsail has very similar dims to those stated for a "lapper", we're just having a No. 4 built which should help with the heavier stuff.
Mast down and back up last weekend. We only had a forestay length of around 9.88m and not the 9.932m as recommended by the Hood tuning guide, this seems to equate with the 32'6-7" mentioned in this forum. I've extended the forestay and have put a bowline in the backstay but haven't yet tensioned the shrouds, we've got an extreme rake at the moment , I'm hoping this is going to to turn into pre-bend once tensioned. Is this normal. The lack of rake might be the answer to our poor upwind performance! Cheers, |
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murph
Admin Group Joined: 25 January 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Yes the original Lapper does sweep the deck and it still is used as a class sail. Its 106%, ironically Bruce Farr designed this boat for use with this as its largest headsail...non overlapping jib technically speaking. Same as Mumm30, Farr40 etc... very similar bendy rig too.
The builder put the Genoa in the inventory because early owners had to sail PHRF until there were enough boats to form a class and have one-design racing. When this occured most owners agreed that they'd like to keep the genoa as part of the standard boat. Reality is that the L28 sails faster with its Lapper at 11 Knots true or above. The Lapper uses the forward upper deck tracks and yes the clew does almost touch the fairlead Hope this helps |
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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The single biggest improvement I made to my boat was replacing the stock traveler system with the harken windward sheeting system. It’s expensive but I believe it’s the best bang for the buck. Our lapper goes on the inboard track; I’m pretty sure with the cars almost all the way forward. When you are fully sheeted the clew of the lapper should almost touch the block on the car. I’ve never tried the outboard track but I suppose if you had big waves it would help. The stock lapper sweeps the deck. I believe it’s a 106% (maybe 108%?) overlap. I thought seriously about changing my rating to lapper only, but we sail in a lot of light air and spend too much time reaching. In any event, once the wind’s up to 12-kts you can switch to the lapper. |
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jez rees
Rookie Joined: 25 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Thanks for the info khardy. That's just the kind of stuff that speeds up the learning curve! Traveller works OK but I can see that a Harken windward sheeting car would be a bonus if I've gotta drive, keep her on the rails and dump down the track. More money!! I'm going with a tape measure to look at our No. 3 compared with a lapper (based on dims elsewhere on this forum). Tell me, are the lappers high cut or deck sweeping? sheeting on forward track cabin roof? I don't suppose there's a photo of a nice one anywhere? Thinking about re-rating without the big genoa. Cheers.
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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Sadly there's only one other L-28 in Florida and she's on the other coast. My only consolation is that my PHRF class includes 8-regular starters who are all with in 2-sec per mile of us. Maybe some year I'll make it up there for a north american.
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lucgmix
Crew Joined: 30 June 2007 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Here, we have a 9 sec difference with the J-30, we owe them.
Do you guys have lots of Laser 28 in your area? We did the Canadian championships with 19 boats (all Laser 28) last September, great times! Our North American's in Kingston had over 30 boats in the first years after the boat was built. |
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Luc Gregoire
Colibri 224 Tactician |
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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We are in Tampa, Florida. Our typical wind is light which explains our higher PHFR rating of 132. We rate even with S2 9.2s and J-30s. There are a few Soveral 30s who rate within a second. The J-27s owe us 9-sec per mile. But when the wind is up around 18 we have no problems beating the J-27 boat for boat if we sail as I outline above.
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lucgmix
Crew Joined: 30 June 2007 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Hi khardy,
Where do you sail and what is your PHRF rating? Here, in PHRF-LO (Lac Ontario), it's 126. |
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Luc Gregoire
Colibri 224 Tactician |
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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Jez rees says, "Short courses over an hour and half, heavy weather and in a mixed IRC fleet is maybe not the best place for a Laser to shine. " I'm not sure about IRC; we sail PHRF. But in those conditions we are untouchable provided we have at least 6. (Eight's even faster!) Here are some pointers for these conditions: Up-wind:
Number 6 takes practice but it is the key to winning with the laser 28 in anything over 12-kts. (And many other fractional rigged boats for that matter.) Down wind:
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frfletch
Commodore Joined: 13 May 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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We sail often in those conditions with only 4 and manage to do okay. Others have said this, but again it is very important to let the boat get up to speed before trying to point. Also, we find that in the gusts we let the boat come up if we are late easing the main. When it does come up, it is amazing to watch the speed increase even though the boat is shaking itself out. This really demonstrates how the boat wants to be sailed flat.
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Frank Fletcher
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jez rees
Rookie Joined: 25 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Yeah, I think meat on the rail has got to be the answer. Blowing again yesterday morning, 1 reef (only boat in the fleet with a reef) and No. 3 headsail but only 4 people. Making far too much leeway which means that we have to sail low on the start and get stuffed on the first beat, races are lost then and there however much fun we have flying downwind and catching up.
The ballast addition would probably help with the IRC displacement number, as the way we are sailing at the moment we're not sailing to the rating. Short courses over an hour and half, heavy weather and in a mixed IRC fleet is maybe not the best place for a Laser to shine. But then again we could just be not very good. |
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khardy
Commodore Joined: 22 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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I doubt adding ballast inside the boat would help much since it would not exert much leverage against overturning. I know some have added a few hundred lb in a bulb at the bottom of the keel. There’s a good bit of info on this in the web site. Have you tried sailing with a reef in the main? I assume under these conditions you are using the lapper head sail? No doubt, to sail the stock boat to the numbers you need a lot of meat on the rail. |
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jez rees
Rookie Joined: 25 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Recent racing has been in 18-25 knots. We're really struggling upwind to keep the boat flat(ter), if we don't we're just going sideways and slow.
It would probably help if we were fully crewed but sometimes we can only find four of us. Do people think that adding ballast around the saloon table bilges would help? I know it would affect our downwind speed but also might benefit our IRC rating (0.907). We're only just learning the boat, but know that some L28s have this ballast and seem to be competitive even in double handed series. The boat appears to have been ballasted once but has had it removed. Does anyone know how much is normal or is it just a matter of observing boat trim as it's loaded? Thanks |
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